NavRes BOTC changes?

[x-grunt]

I had heard a rumour that the NavRes IAP/BOTC had been changed to a new format this year, perhaps shortened to 8 weeks plus some time at the NRD.

Does anyone have any info on this? Just curious, my re-enlistment is dragging on and I won't get in until after the summer.

 

[Chummy]

Just finished BOTC at Work Point... course was 10.5 weeks, with all the subject matter covered in St. Jean compressed into this shorter time period... this summer's course is still accredited as equivalent to the reg force course.

The "reliable source" scuttlebut is that the NAVRES course will be a much longer course next summer, and that, as a result, it may also be impossible to do NETPO in the same summer. People who were unsuccessful at TRB's in BOTP, but offered a recourse, were advised that they would not simply be able to do an IAP bypass and have three weeks to redo. Rather, they may or may not have to redo some or all of IAP, but in any event could count on a substantially longer training period than the three week BOTP portion this year.

I understand the rationale for the IAP/BOTP changes was that the changes were necessary to maintain the reg force accreditation, given some CF wide changes coming in BOTC. My advice would be to confirm the status officially, and seriously consider doing the course in St. Jean over the fall/winter if your schedule allows (and you can get on the course), in order to be able to do NETPO next summer, and to avoid any possible issue surrounding the course's "equivalency to reg force" status.

NETPO this year has a DL component that you do at your NRD, but not IAP/BOTP. If you are trying to go straight through MARS training and are lucky enough to get on MARS III immediately after NETPO, I understand they will run the balance of the course (the DL package) at Venture, right after NETPO. So far rumour has it that there is no more room on MARS III this fall, so this may be moot.

 

[x-grunt]

Thanks Chummy, good to know. Congrats on passing your courses.

Darn, wish I could have made it in to this year. Do you have any clue what "a much  longer course" may mean for next year?

People who were unsuccessful at TRB's in BOTP

What is a TRB?

I may look at St. Jean as you advise, but from what I have heard around here people are dissatisfied with St. Jean and how courses are run. Are you satisfied with the quality of the course at Work Point?

 

[mdh]

Interesting info, thanks

 

[Chummy]

Re Satisfied with Work Point...there were a few whiners, but I am satisfied. The difficulty with the course is a significant lack of available instruction personnel and funding, but one better get used to doing more with less in this organization. I have no experience of St Jean, but I understand they aren't as pressured with prep time and short staffing. I thought the staff and particularly the Div PO's were very good and fair. There was enough pushups and discipline that you felt you were on basic, but the staff was approachable when it counted. The course essentials were all covered, and for the most part it was the experience I was expecting.

One nice thing about doing the course here is that your field exercises are at Albert Head, which has some beautiful scenery, if you're into ocean, mountains and wildlife. Also Sea Kings doing hoist exercises right next to your biv site... It didn't rain that much...  . Really, can't beat Victoria.  Work Point is also ocean front in Victoria, and the food is great at the galley. The staff is great, and it is nice that they are for the most part Navy. The Nuclear Bio Chem course is extended at this BOTC to cover some naval stuff like ship citadel, and cleansing stations, so as a Naval Reservist it's nice to get that spin. I'm sure the CS gas feels the same in St. Jean... On the down side, the barracks is very old, not enough IT access, and sometimes genuinely not enough time to study for some exams, but you suck back, reload and carry on... teaching that, leadership and teamwork is the point of the course, anyway... 

I don't know for sure what "much longer" means, though I heard 14 to 16 weeks thrown around. That would include IAP and BOTP. Frankly, I'm not sure the people making the decision know yet.

TRB means "Training Review Board". Fail a performance objective and the retest, and you are automatically standing before a board of your PO's and officers (course CO, too), where you have to convince them you are worth a) keeping on course, b) recoursing, or c) keeping in the military at all... in some cases they may recommend a candidate go NCM if they they see something they like, but they don't think the candidate has the requisite officer qualities (or needs time to develop leadership attributes). You can also end up at a TRB for screwing up really badly, or for the same thing multiple times. A number of people ended up there in the last week as a result of unsuccessful small party task field evaluations, or the cumulative effect of numerous chits and conducts.  Some graduated, some didn't. 

Hope that's helpful in informing your decision... get as much info as you can from as many different sources as you can, and the average will probably be close to the right answer...

 

[x-grunt]

Chummy, outstanding responses. Thanks for all the info. After waiting over a year ( and still not even scheduled for my medical or fitness test! ) I'd started to lose my enthusiasm. Reading your info has got me pumped again.

 

[Chummy]

Sorry to hear the recruiting process is still so painful... you're not alone, if it's any consolation... many of my coursemates had similar stories, and were enrolled just days before the course started...I was well over a year in the machine, and had to re-do some of the components (eg. the fit test) because my previous results had expired before they finished processing the next part of my application. I'm glad I stayed with it, but had my moments. They really need to fix that... I'm sure they lose a lot of good people that way... 

 

[Monsoon]

A friend of mine is the second-in-command out at the Venture BOTC right now, actually, and he sat on the QSP review they held back in May to figure out what should/shouldn't be added to the course.  The impression I got was that the CDA (Canadian Defence Academy) wanted to add a lot of material to the syllabus, but that they were open to concerns from NAVRES that anything more would make the course impractically long.  I have heard it suggested that either the extra material will be done as an in-unit package or that, for people who want to complete the training straight through without returning to unit, a small course will be run to let them do that.  They've worked hard to keep the three-summer/12-month training layout for MARS officers, and though they've had to deviate from it from year to year I expect it will more or less stay that way.  I think I did the last wholly three-summer program of BOTC I/BOTC II/MARS II + MARS III + MARS IV and I don't feel I lacked anything for it, though I also got to do the NOC course subsequently for admin and staffwork training, which was very useful.  Not everyone gets that benefit, so I can see why they want to download some of that to BOTC.

Anyway, recruiting is a byzatine mess.  Couple of pieces of advice:
1 - Don't expect the process to "do it's thing"; stay on them by phone and in person, talk to as many different people as possible.  Probably your file has been sitting on one person's desk for weeks or months.
2 - If you aren't trying to join through the unit (if you went to the recruiting center instead) get the unit recruiter involved.  The center is staffed with people who just get paid by the day, but the unit really wants you to join and knows how to expedite the process.  I know of people who were processed in under two weeks at the beginning of this summer.

Good luck.

 

[x-grunt]

Thanks hamiltongs, much appreciated.

 

[mcdvnav]

I just wanted to add some info regarding St. Jean vs Workpoint.

I did BOTC1 in St Jean and BOTC2 in Esquimalt.

Esquimalt has a nicer climate, there are more IT resources in esquimalt, the workpoint barracks are the same age as St. Jean.

I found St. Jean to be better organised and the staff were more experienced. The training area in St Jean is a place called Farnham. It's hot(30+) and dusty in the summer and freezing in the winter. If it rains the whole place turns into a swamp.

I found Albert head-- the training area in Esquimalt-- much nicer. Sunny, cool and dry.

If you're trying to join HMCS Malahat-- Victoria's naval reserve division-- it shouldn't take as long as it has. When was the last time you talked to them?