• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

money crisis

G

G I JAY

Guest
i was looking over some of the projects and operations canada is doing right now and there are billions of dollars being used for military purpose. some of it is neede but canada cant afford this right now. canada should delay some of these projects and not give money away to poorer contries because the more money spent on military the more taxes we have to pay. :cdn: :tank: :cdn:
 
I agree in part with what you say from a practical standpoint. But the reality of it is
the money we give to poorer countries is sorely needed. We can‘t stop those donations
if we want to mantain our countries position as a champion of the UN‘s global
humanitarian efforts. And these programs in effect for Canada‘s armed forces wont go
on forever, the purchasing of new equipment and reforming of programs can only take
so long, and eventually taxes will go back down. I‘d rather take a socialist standpoint
and pay more taxes but see more benefits for all.
 
Maybe Canada should spend all the money going to poor countries on its military. Then the military can be deployed and help them.

(this is not my opinion, it is simply an idea)
 
If we spent more money giving aid to countries, and persuaded them to abandon their dictatorial regimes, we would not have to deploy soldiers overseas at all.

Peacekeepers are not the cure to the problems, just a bandaid. The world we are striving for is one with no wars - and no peacekeepers.

That is achieved through economic prosperity.
 
I agree with Michael, in the perfect world there would be no militaries. But in the
mean-time we have a use for our military, and should mantain it. Though we still have
to work towards a better future (donations to poor countries) so what we need is a
good balance.
 
just because canada is the worlds leading u.n peace keeping country in the world , does not mean it is the only country that can help out poorer
countries. what about the u.s.a there the richest and most powerful country in the world but the have there head so far up the @$$ they wont even think about helping out 3rd world counties. and because of canadas generosity it has left us almost as poor as some aisian and africain counrtys.i know that canada needs all the tanks and equipment we are buying to be come a more powerful country but we cant afford it and to help out ever other countries. our country could be so far in debt we might have to ask the americans to help us out of financial troubles and we all know that is not somethin we want. :mad: :cdn: :(
 
Canada is currently far from the "worlds leading UN Peacekeeper". We have only 304 (DND figures, not including Police/Civilians) personnel deployed on UN Missions (Blue Beret missions...not NATO!) The biggest contingent is in the Golan Heights, with around 190 pers, but the majority of our deployments consist of VERY small groups...sometimes only one man on the ground. If you want to compare numbers...check out this link to see how we compare to the rest of the world...

UN Peacekeeping Contributors - May

Some of the poorest countries in the world are amongst the biggest contributers. Take a look at the African missions...not alot of European/North American faces in those hellholes...

I find it awfully depressing that our Government seems to take great pride in a Peacekeeping reputation we can no longer afford to maintain with current funding/manning levels.
 
acording to the guinness book of records 2001 canada and fija have taken place in 42 out of 49 u.n peace keeping operations more than any other nation on this planet and at most times most canadas army are away in the middle east or in bosnia. canada has shipped to destroys along with 500 troops to mozambique in order to teach children about sports, dangers and school. because they are to poor to do it them selves.and acording to dnd canada is invold in 18 operations in the world and has a total of 2474 troops on those operations.which i am not to sure about but i think that that is alot more then alot of other nations but i am trying to find info on it right now. :D
 
It is true that Asian and African countries contribute many soldiers, however all the "soldiers" the give are not trained or equiped. I got this information from a book, but I forget what it is called. (the book is about Canadas contribution to U.N. missions, maybe some of you guys know what it is called)
 
soldier of fortune does make a good point. because of the africain countrys being so populated the can suppl soldiers to other countrys as long as that country supplies them with weopens andtraining. befor i forget is the navy and army base in halifax the largest in canada. :cdn: :evil:
 
No kidding the poor nations have sub-standard militaries. That‘s one of the glaring reasons that Western nations should be in countries where the Third-World nations currently deployed by the UN...

Now...I don‘t think that you can argue with numbers. Yes, in the past we contributed alot of troops to UN missions...I believe that was what we were talking about...not our NATO contributions in Bosnia, or STANAVFORLANT (or sometimes STANAVFORMED). But, a country is credited with participation in a UN Mission if they only contribute one man on the ground...and alot of those 42(?) missions were made up of a handful of personnel.

Where did you get your troop numbers? If you check to see the numbers of troops involved in missions...UN MISSIONS, not NATO, not MFO, not IMATTs, not AWACS, not STANAVFORLANT, we have 304 personnel on UN Missions...BLUE BERET missions...

You stated that we were the "worlds leading u.n. peace keeping country in the world". If you count number of missions...hey...sure we are. But we definitely are not "the only country that can (or does) help out poorer countries."
 
i know there is only 304 troops on u.n missions but there are 2474 troops on peace keeping missions that are not u.n i was counting nato and all the others as well but still canada has been on more peace keeping operations then most other countrys in the world so 3rd world countrys look to us for money and troops. :cdn:
 
now back to the main idea about this post. canada is buying well over 1000 new a.p.c and are upgrading all our jets,tanks and carriers which of coarse is needed but so is peace keeping so canada is buying all this new equipment and in a mounth or two from now it will be shpped away on a peace keeping operation and could be destroyed.
the equipment canada is buying should stay in the country other wise it is almost a wast of money :cdn: :tank: :fifty: :flame: :mg: :sniper: :rocket: = :skull:
 
If you are not going to use the equipment why buy it? Im sure you will get your moneys worth using it rather then admiring it? Why buy tools for war if you are just going to keep them in the shed
 
This thread is going nowhere...

Jay, how many missions have you been on? How would you like it if you‘re stuck using some crapped out 1960‘s era track in BiH, when all of the LAVIII‘s are sitting in a compound in Gag(e)town, or Edmonton? How about using an Iltis for "recce", when all of the Coyotes are back in Canada collecting dust. Wouldn‘t be too happy, would ya?

Like it or not, we deploy to these places, so we better have the equipment we need to do the job in question. If we‘re going to keep the kit at home (to defend us from what?), we may as well call it quits for the Forces. We need a raison d‘etre...peacekeeping is it (for now...).

P.S. Enough with the graemlins!!

[ 05 July 2001: Message edited by: donkreel ] :boring:
 
"War is ugly but not the ugliest of things; the decay and degraded state of moral and patriotic felings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personel safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

-John Stuart Mill


I think Canada needs a war.
 
I saw "Soldier of Fortune‘s" post late last night, and definitely wanted to reply (but decided to sleep on it - "discretion being the better part of valour" and all that ...)

I‘ve never experienced real war, so perhaps I‘m not an authority on the subject. I note, however, the words of somebody who saw war:

"Take my word for it, if you had seen but one day of war, you would pray Almighty God that you might never see such a thing again."
- - Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington


Perhaps a more appropriate observation with regard to the original topic of this thread might be:

"When a military spirit forsakes a people, the profession of arms immediately ceases to be held in honour, and military men fall to the lowest rank of public servants; they are little esteemed and no longer understood ... Hence arises a circle of cause and consequence from which it is difficult to escape: the best part of the nation shuns the military profession because that profession is not honoured, and the profession is not honoured because the best part of the nation has ceased to follow it."
- - Alexis de Tocqueville, from "Discovery in America"
 
Excellent post, Bossi!

When I saw the quotes, it reminded me of one of my favourite poems...one which bears more than a passing connection to de Tocqueville‘s quote...here we go...

Tommy

I went into a public-‘ouse to get a pint o‘ beer,
The publican ‘e up an‘ sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be‘ind the bar they laughed an‘ giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an‘ to myself sez I:
O it‘s Tommy this, an‘ Tommy that, an‘ "Tommy, go away";
But it‘s "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it‘s "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but ‘adn‘t none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-‘alls,
But when it comes to fightin‘, Lord! they‘ll shove me in the stalls!
For it‘s Tommy this, an‘ Tommy that, an‘ "Tommy, wait outside";
But it‘s "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper‘s on the tide,
The troopship‘s on the tide, my boys, the troopship‘s on the tide,
O it‘s "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper‘s on the tide.

Yes, makin‘ mock o‘ uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an‘ they‘re starvation cheap;
An‘ hustlin‘ drunken soldiers when they‘re goin‘ large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin‘ in full kit.
Then it‘s Tommy this, an‘ Tommy that, an‘ "Tommy, ‘ow‘s yer soul?"
But it‘s "Thin red line of ‘eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it‘s "Thin red line of ‘eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren‘t no thin red ‘eroes, nor we aren‘t no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An‘ if sometimes our conduck isn‘t all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don‘t grow into plaster saints;
While it‘s Tommy this, an‘ Tommy that, an‘ "Tommy, fall be‘ind",
But it‘s "Please to walk in front, sir", when there‘s trouble in the wind,
There‘s trouble in the wind, my boys, there‘s trouble in the wind,
O it‘s "Please to walk in front, sir", when there‘s trouble in the wind.

You talk o‘ better food for us, an‘ schools, an‘ fires, an‘ all:
We‘ll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don‘t mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow‘s Uniform is not the soldier-man‘s disgrace.
For it‘s Tommy this, an‘ Tommy that, an‘ "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it‘s "Saviour of ‘is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An‘ it‘s Tommy this, an‘ Tommy that, an‘ anything you please;

An‘ Tommy ain‘t a bloomin‘ fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

- Rudyard Kipling

Nothing changes, in the end...
 
Without another war Canadas Military would go to waste, Im not saying that war is good, all this upgrading and money spent on recruiting and new equipment for what?
 
Back
Top