Maritime Coastal Defence Vessels (MCDVs)

[dimsum]

The Razorcrest enters the chat....

Harlock enters the chat.

 

[Good2Golf]

And the best pirate ship? Well, of course it's....

“What the Hell is an ‘aluminum falcon’?”

 

[Spencer100]

Harlock enters the chat.

 

[Maxman1]

Enough about

Is anyone familiar with the Holland class patrol vessels in the Royal Netherlands Navy?

Holland-class offshore patrol vessel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Would a mix of those and 57mm armed River class OPVs work doe us?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Enough about

Is anyone familiar with the Holland class patrol vessels in the Royal Netherlands Navy?

Holland-class offshore patrol vessel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Would a mix of those and 57mm armed River class OPVs work doe us?

To do what? Be specific- what mission(s), at what sea state, at what range from shore?

You have to figure that part out first, before you go internet shopping for ships.

 

[Underway]

Agreed. Ships provide a capability. What is the capability gap or goal we want to get from an MCDV replacement? Mine warfare, coastal patrol, OGD support, interdiction operations close to home (North America) ??

 

[Prairie canuck]

Is anyone familiar with the Holland class patrol vessels in the Royal Netherlands Navy?

Holland-class offshore patrol vessel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Would a mix of those and 57mm armed River class OPVs work doe us?

Why not something with 60 days endurance instead of 21? USCG new Cutter

 

[Lumber]

Why not something with 60 days endurance instead of 21? USCG new Cutter

There is no way you can have 60 day endurance without both a liquid and solid RAS (meaning food and fuel). Even if they have some miraculous new engine that CAN patrol for 60 days without refueling, they'd still need to replishment food, or else they have some massive freezers, and are serving nothing but carrot and raisin salad, UHT milk, and freezer burnt pork chops from day 14 to say 60. Yuck.

Edit. My point was I doubt a small patrol craft can conduct a solid RAS, and I'm pretty sure none can liquid RAS either.

Also, I can't find anywhere that it mentions or explains this 60 day endurance.

 

[Halifax Tar]

There is no way you can have 60 day endurance without both a liquid and solid RAS (meaning food and fuel). Even if they have some miraculous new engine that CAN patrol for 60 days without refueling, they'd still need to replishment food, or else they have some massive freezers, and are serving nothing but carrot and raisin salad, UHT milk, and freezer burnt pork chops from day 14 to say 60. Yuck.

Edit. My point was I doubt a small patrol craft can conduct a solid RAS, and I'm pretty sure none can liquid RAS either.

Also, I can't find anywhere that it mentions or explains this 60 day endurance.

You would be correct.

Food days on a CPF

14 Days Dairy
14 Days Fresh
30 Days Frozen
30 Days Dry

So the rations stores would need to be about twice the size of a CPF. I have 34 days at sea without a solid RAS. We planned diligently before we left and managed to do it, but there was a marked drop in food quality past 14 days. And the rations storing first day in Cape Town was HUUUUGE. Fun ditty, CRCN was our XO then.

Now, AOPs has some whiz bang fridge's and freezers where they are getting longer dates, but I am unfamiliar with them.

Also the PRO class had massive fridges as they were supposed to provide fleet support. We often also carried chiller sea cans on our upper decks.

 

[Maxman1]

To do what? Be specific- what mission(s), at what sea state, at what range from shore?

You have to figure that part out first, before you go internet shopping for ships.

Agreed. Ships provide a capability. What is the capability gap or goal we want to get from an MCDV replacement? Mine warfare, coastal patrol, OGD support, interdiction operations close to home (North America) ??

I was going off the Kingstons' current mission taskings, which, per the Government of Canada page, is "coastal surveillance and patrol including general naval operations and exercises, search and rescue, law enforcement, resource protection and fisheries patrols."

The Holland class has largely the same mission within the Royal Netherlands Navy and is designed for good seakeeping, has a modern armament consisting of more than two machine guns, an aircraft hanger, and an extensive sensor suite:

The ships are able to monitor to 250 km (160 mi) range air, missile and UAV targets, and to 70 km (43 mi) range surface targets[7] using a Thales Integrated Sensor and Communication Systems (ISCS), comprising a SeaMaster 400 air warning radar, a Watcher 100 active phased-array surface detection and tracking radar (claimed to be able to detect small objects such as mines and periscopes on the sea surface at 40 km (25 mi) range[8]). It has link 11 & 16 data links [9] a mine detection sonar and an infra-red Gatekeeper/electro-optical (EO) warning system.[4]

The sensor systems are housed in an integrated mast, also provided by Thales, called the I-Mast 400.[10] Thales also built the satellite communications system for the ships.[11]

 

[Spencer100]

I was going off the Kingstons' current mission taskings, which, per the Government of Canada page, is "coastal surveillance and patrol including general naval operations and exercises, search and rescue, law enforcement, resource protection and fisheries patrols."

The Holland class has largely the same mission within the Royal Netherlands Navy and is designed for good seakeeping, has a modern armament consisting of more than two machine guns, an aircraft hanger, and an extensive sensor suite:

Remember.....the RCN will not want to replace the Kingstons until the CSC is good signed, mostly delivered. To the political and gov accounting types that Holland class looks mostly like the CSC. And the price difference! Its got a pointy front and with a gun on it and its painted grey. Why do we need to spend this much on CSC?

You would want the Kingston's replacement to not look like a "warship" You may think I'm being flippant but there is school of thought that things like that happen. I don't know about this program in RCN but don't ever say its couldn't.

 

[Czech_pivo]

You would be correct.

Food days on a CPF

14 Days Dairy
14 Days Fresh
30 Days Frozen
30 Days Dry

So the rations stores would need to be about twice the size of a CPF. I have 34 days at sea without a solid RAS. We planned diligently before we left and managed to do it, but there was a marked drop in food quality past 14 days. And the rations storing first day in Cape Town was HUUUUGE. Fun ditty, CRCN was our XO then.

Now, AOPs has some whiz bang fridge's and freezers where they are getting longer dates, but I am unfamiliar with them.

Also the PRO class had massive fridges as they were supposed to provide fleet support. We often also carried chiller sea cans on our upper decks.

Why not store some hand lines and gill nets for some fresh fish?

Joke - its a joke....

 

[Halifax Tar]

Why not store some hand lines and gill nets for some fresh fish?

Joke - its a joke....

We had some sailors pull in some weird looking fish off the Seychelles. We let them wrap the fish in cellophane and put them in the freezer until the Doc found out and we had to ditch them.

Fishing does happen, on a very micro scale.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Is anyone familiar with the Holland class patrol vessels in the Royal Netherlands Navy?

Holland-class offshore patrol vessel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Would a mix of those and 57mm armed River class OPVs work doe us?

Holland Class is almost the same displacement of a Halifax Class. I go for replacing half the fleet with River Class patrol vessels Batch 2 and the rest with dedicated Route and mine clearance vessels such as the Dutch/Belgium vessel

City-class mine countermeasures vessel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Maxman1]

Remember.....the RCN will not want to replace the Kingstons until the CSC is good signed, mostly delivered. To the political and gov accounting types that Holland class looks mostly like the CSC. And the price difference! Its got a pointy front and with a gun on it and its painted grey. Why do we need to spend this much on CSC?

You would want the Kingston's replacement to not look like a "warship" You may think I'm being flippant but there is school of thought that things like that happen. I don't know about this program in RCN but don't ever say its couldn't.

I was thinking four or six Holland OPVs and ten or 12 Batch 2 River class.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I was thinking four or six Holland OPVs and ten or 12 Batch 2 River class.

Love the idea but there's a better chance of me capturing a unicorn and training a leprechaun to ride it......

 

[dapaterson]

We had some sailors pull in some weird looking fish off the Seychelles. We let them wrap the fish in cellophane and put them in the freezer until the Doc found out and we had to ditch them.

Fishing does happen, on a very micro scale.

Divers court martialled for poaching lobster enter the chat...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Divers court martialled for poaching lobster enter the chat...

Best part of the CCG was following the fishing fleet at trolling speed. In one hour in Rivers Inlet, we caught the boat limit. Salmon barbecue the next day.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Divers court martialled for poaching lobster enter the chat...

We don't talk about that.

 

[Prairie canuck]

There is no way you can have 60 day endurance without both a liquid and solid RAS (meaning food and fuel). Even if they have some miraculous new engine that CAN patrol for 60 days without refueling, they'd still need to replishment food, or else they have some massive freezers, and are serving nothing but carrot and raisin salad, UHT milk, and freezer burnt pork chops from day 14 to say 60. Yuck.

Edit. My point was I doubt a small patrol craft can conduct a solid RAS, and I'm pretty sure none can liquid RAS either.

Also, I can't find anywhere that it mentions or explains this 60 day endurance.

It's in the Wiki page Heritage Cutter