LPC leadership race - 2025

[Remius]

Yeah. Not exactly his fault if we just can't spend it. Has the hinted at the plan anywhere else? Or is it a trust me thing.

And not spending it on anything US made makes it tricky. If that's a huge deal tonus now we should cancel our F35s and go for the Euro fighter. Or J-20.

Not sure he said not spend on anything US. It looks more like increase to 2% without spending on the US.

 

[Jarnhamar]

"First Nation Owned" single-employee companies love this one trick.

I don't know. Spending billions on F35s but not on other US stuff seems like splitting cat hairs. It doesn't make sense to base our fighter force off a hostile nations airframe.

What happens when we goto war with the US and they turn off an F35 like a hacked Telsa? It's going to crash and hurt the environment, thats what

 

[Good2Golf]

Not sure he said not spend on anything US. It looks more like increase to 2% without spending on the US.

There can be a fair number of pivots *off the US. CSC can be pivoted away from AEGIS/SM2/ESSM back to CMS-330+ and Thales, P-8s can be cancelled and a Bombardier solution pursued for future use while SAAB radar integrated to a Bomnardier platform for AWCS capability instead of the E-7, KSS III subs from Hanwha/HHI, heck even some new K2 MBTs from Hyundai Rotem. A400M, sure buy 8-12, and consider pivoting to Rafale F4 (same as KSA recently ordered)…could hit 2% in 2027-2028…

*edit to add: investigate a pivot to focus support on JEF+Poland

 

[MilEME09]

We can definitely pivot and just not have any new contracts to the US

 

[CBH99]

Ok I'll take a stab at it.

Two things first:
1. I'm not necessarily a liberal voter. I haven't voted liberal in any election since 2015.
2. I see the CPC in general, but more specifically PP as populist, meaning they will do more of what LOOKS good for invidividual Canadians in the short term, regardless of the long term effect, whereas the LPC is more willing to look at things from a cosmopolitan and long term perspective.

Econony and Trade: LPC. PP and the CPC are trending "populist" and populism leans toward isolationism which is not good for economic growth. To truly grow in the modern age requires tapping into and becoming intwined with the international market even if that means some local industries suffer. Honestly, the only real liberal fumble over the last decade that has me irate is their unwillingness to at least TRY and unlock our LNG potential in the international market.

Security and Defence. It's a toss up. Both parties talk a big game but both parties treatdefence like a flagship without a fleet, only truly supporting it when it looks good politically but ignoring it when it doesn't. I would lean toward the LPC for two reasons: 1. because they have seemed to get us more involved in international missions, which builds both experience and builds relationships, and 2. Because it was the CPC that ordered those God awful AOPVs.

Housing: neither, sort of. Housing is a provincial issue and I don't believe either party can truly help. However, housing availability has been significantly affected by immigration, which saw explosive growth under the LPC. The Libs seem to have learned their lesson in that regars, so a few months ago I would have said CPC, but as long as the LPC doesn't change their tune, I dont see the CPC doing any better on this front. In fact, since the LPC is more concerned with social welfare, I could see the LPC doing a better job of creating programs that find people "homes" even if that doesn't necessarily mean "housing" growth.

Natural resources. LPC, but only from a certain point of view. Both economic growth and the exploitation of natural resources should not be treated like a soulless mega corporation, where there are no ethics other than maximizing shareholder value. Instead, you need to balance economic growth with the long term health of the country, it's people, and our environment. The liberals talk like they are Green-faced but deep down the majority of them want to drill drill drill (there are exceptions like that weasel Guilbeaut), but for the most part I believe the LPC will do a better job balancing thee need for growth our responsibility to safeguard the environment for our future.

Justice: LPC. I believe in restorative justice and fighting against the route causes of crime, whereas the populist approach is just more cops and harsher punishment.

Law enforcement: Well, the LPC executed a reasonable and limited use of the EA in order to restore law and order, so, them. Come at me.

Foreign Interference: neither. Both parties will talk a big game, but in the end both will look at what 'politcal' effect their reactions might be to FI and will do what's best for them and not for the country.

Lumber,

I also tip my hat to you, good sir.

We have wildly different views and opinions when it comes to our federal politics, but you took the time and articulated your points quite well & I very much respect that


Good post sir

 

[Remius]

We can definitely pivot and just not have any new contracts to the US

Start with infrastructure projects. Armouries, housing etc. That is easily done by buying Canadian. Then diversify with what can’t be done here by diversifying outside the US.

 

[suffolkowner]

what are the major projects/needs on the burner? The non US choices?

Self propelled artillery
towed artillery
MLRS
Loitering Munitions
GBAD-missiles
-35mm guns
SHORAD
ATGM
120mm mortar
LUVW
SSK
MBT

 

[CBH99]

Getting called out by the Supreme Court for violating Canadians charter rights is a good thing. It proves the system is working. Kudos to the LPC for that.

Shouldn't that be kudos to the Supreme Court for calling out the LPC's deliberate misuse of the Emergencies Act & subsequent violation of Canadian's charter rights...

And not kudos to the LPC?


Or do you mean like kudos to the LPC for giving the system a surprise stress test, which it thankfully passed?

 

[MilEME09]

what are the major projects/needs on the burner? The non US choices?

Self propelled artillery
towed artillery
MLRS
Loitering Munitions
GBAD-missiles
-35mm guns
SHORAD
ATGM
120mm mortar
LUVW
SSK

All of which we can pivot euro or korean, the Koreans i bet could be convinced to set up munitions factories here too

 

[CBH99]

what are the major projects/needs on the burner? The non US choices?

Self propelled artillery
towed artillery
MLRS
Loitering Munitions
GBAD-missiles
-35mm guns
SHORAD
ATGM
120mm mortar
LUVW
SSK

SPA - The K9 system from S. Korea (probably the best system we could buy actually, with several improvements over the M109)

Towed Artillery - I don't even know if towed artillery is still relevant in modern warfare after watching Russia/Ukraine

MLRS - unfortunately I think HIMARS is probably the system we would want and need

LM - all kinds of 3rd world countries seem to be able to produce loitering munitions these days. I would argue we could design and build our own loitering munitions in-house.

GBAD - the system we are already buying from Sweden seems ideal for low level AD. (Could be mounted on a LAV easy enough)

Need an AA gun system too. Again we could probably design and build a fairly simple and effective AA system here in Canada (the Gepard isn't exactly mind blowing tech, but it's effective)

ATGM - Spike ER, also see if Sweden has any ATGM systems on the market

120mm - LOTS of Euro systems out there to look at

LUVW - I would say license build them here (but under no circumstances is Western Star allowed to bid!! F**k those guys!!)

SSK - Germany, France, Sweden, and S. Korea all have boats on the market, and we will probably buy from S. Korea anyway

 

[Jarnhamar]

Start with infrastructure projects. Armouries, housing etc.

Maybe the government will finally do something about CFHA's fuckery.

Shouldn't that be kudos to the Supreme Court for calling out the LPC's deliberate misuse of the Emergencies Act & subsequent violation of Canadian's charter rights...

And not kudos to the LPC?

Trudeau said that about one of the LPC's fuck ups. Just like punching your wife in the face and going to jail is good because it proves the system works.

 

[Jarnhamar]

All of which we can pivot euro or korean, the Koreans i bet could be convinced to set up munitions factories here too

South Korea is a vassal state. Canadians need to rely on a country that doesn't rely on the US.

 

[Good2Golf]

South Korea is a vassal state. Canadians need to rely on a country that doesn't rely on the US.

Not necessarily total untrue, but it also has a lot of the world coming to it (China primarily, US is there but others are close), so it as well me be able to further diversify to Western nations other than the US.

https://oec.world/en/profile/country/kor

 

[MilEME09]

South Korea is a vassal state. Canadians need to rely on a country that doesn't rely on the US.

And by pulling their reliance on the US we could accomplish both. How about 2% GDP 4CMBG in Latvia and 6 CMBG in South Korea?

 

[brihard]

Shouldn't that be kudos to the Supreme Court for calling out the LPC's deliberate misuse of the Emergencies Act & subsequent violation of Canadian's charter rights...

And not kudos to the LPC?


Or do you mean like kudos to the LPC for giving the system a surprise stress test, which it thankfully passed?

The SCC hasn’t heard the Emergencies Act matter at all. The decision was at the Federal Court level, the first level of court for such matters. The appeal is ongoing and hearings were heard about a week ago- sort of got buried in the news with everything going on. I’m not sure how long it’ll be for a decision. If either parry appeals whatever FCA rules, then it would go to SCC as a final step.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The SCC hasn’t heard the Emergencies Act matter at all. The decision was at the Federal Court level,

Oops, you're right.

 

[IKnowNothing]

South Korea is a vassal state. Canadians need to rely on a country that doesn't rely on the US.

Sweden. They've got the know how of going it alone + export experience, and if we were serious about defense the scale of customer we would represent should get them sitting up at the table

We buy Archers, IF BAE Hagglunds builds BsV10's in Canada
We buy GlobalEye, IF Saab puts it on Bombardiers
We buy large stocks of THOR, MAPAM, the latest CG 84, RBS 70, IF Saab builds 60% of the order value in Canada
If we're going all in, maybe the Navy satisfices with A26 and Visby.

And the piece de resistance
We buy IRIS-T, Meteor, and RBS 15 IF....

Saab builds us Gripens in Canada

 

[Good2Golf]

Sweden. They've got the know how of going it alone + export experience, and if we were serious about defense the scale of customer we would represent should get them sitting up at the table

We buy Archers, IF BAE Hagglunds builds BsV10's in Canada
We buy GlobalEye, IF Saab puts it on Bombardiers
We buy large stocks of THOR, MAPAM, the latest CG 84, RBS 70, IF Saab builds 60% of the order value in Canada
If we're going all in, maybe the Navy satisfices with A26 and Visby.

And the piece de resistance
We buy IRIS-T, Meteor, and RBS 15 IF....

I’m for that, at this point.

Saab builds us Gripens in Canada

I’d technically prefer the Rafale over Gripen, for a number of reasons, many users, opportunity for significant reinforcement of Canadian aerospace working with Dassault (offsets giving US/Boeing the fuddle-duddle), operating the same platform as one of Europe’s big dogs, but in the end…lots and lots of Gripens…sure. At least 138.

 

[Jarnhamar]

so it as well me be able to further diversify to Western nations other than the US.

And by pulling their reliance on the US we could accomplish both. How about 2% GDP 4CMBG in Latvia and 6 CMBG in South Korea?

It looks like the US has 9 major bases in South Korea and almost 30,000 soldiers stationed there.

I know there's been some significant anti-US sentiment and protests but those seem to go away fast when North Korea makes noise.

6 CMBG? We could do that. Maybe put 7 CMBG in Taiwan and 8 CMBG up north with the Rangers.

 

[Good2Golf]

I wouldn’t push my luck in Taiwan, but maybe Canada could be the bridging voice of reason with China and work something out, while Trump is still sorting out Trump Towers - Gaza…