King Charles III Coronation Medal

[foresterab]

Wasn't there some groundswell a while back for a domestic service gong that included the FLQ thing and Oka?

Aware this is straying off topic but I would almost think it's separate awards...one for a military security deployment and one for more generic domestic response.

I'd prefer something like European Security and Defence Policy Service Medal (ESDP) - Canada.ca where it's either X days on military duties (Olympics, G8 response force etc.) or a select activation for a national crisis - FLQ and Oka in my mind should be select bars - with no deployment limit.

This would be a Military/RCMP only award:

Then this is domestic ops within Canada - issued when you deploy on Ops Lentus to a declared state of emergency - and I think of 30? 45 days? where you receive a bar for each set of time established on forest fires, floods, search and rescue, medical response, avalanche?. So a member of the reserves who deployed on forest fires multiple times may have a two bars for forest fires while someone like a serving member of the SARTEC's may have multiple for SAR missions. Not sure of all the different missions between artillery avalanche control in BC to COVID Nursing home assistance to Swiss Air Flight 111 - fire and floods make more sense to me.

This would be eligible not just to RCMP/Military but also volunteer aid groups (Team Rubicon for example). Would require each province or territory to list the declared emergencies eligible (date wise) but it also acknowledges that more than military forces deploy and is secondary to military honors. I'm also struggling as there exists federal long service awards for several professions - policing/fire etc. separate from the CD award and I don't want to confuse the two.

 

[Booter]

This summer I spent basically a month with volunteer uncompensated search and rescue personnel just volunteering and away from their families helping with wildfires. There is a need for a dom ops medal in general. From reservists to volunteers.

 

[mariomike]

I'm also struggling as there exists federal long service awards for several professions - policing/fire etc. separate from the CD award and I don't want to confuse the two.

You are not the only one.

Ottawa sent me an ESM with 30-year Bar, after working 9-1-1 Operations, 40-hours a week, for 35 years in Canada's largest city.

Never worn it. Not that is was not appreciated as a kind retirement gesture. It's just that I was not a federal employee.

I still wear my engraved gold watch from the City. Because that means something to me considering where it comes from, and fellow retirees when we get together.

On the job, one cloth insignia on the lower left sleeve for every five years of service - with the dept. - was all you needed to know.

 

[George Wallace]

Aware this is straying off topic but I would almost think it's separate awards...one for a military security deployment and one for more generic domestic response.

I'd prefer something like European Security and Defence Policy Service Medal (ESDP) - Canada.ca where it's either X days on military duties (Olympics, G8 response force etc.) or a select activation for a national crisis - FLQ and Oka in my mind should be select bars - with no deployment limit.

This would be a Military/RCMP only award:

Then this is domestic ops within Canada - issued when you deploy on Ops Lentus to a declared state of emergency - and I think of 30? 45 days? where you receive a bar for each set of time established on forest fires, floods, search and rescue, medical response, avalanche?. So a member of the reserves who deployed on forest fires multiple times may have a two bars for forest fires while someone like a serving member of the SARTEC's may have multiple for SAR missions. Not sure of all the different missions between artillery avalanche control in BC to COVID Nursing home assistance to Swiss Air Flight 111 - fire and floods make more sense to me.

This would be eligible not just to RCMP/Military but also volunteer aid groups (Team Rubicon for example). Would require each province or territory to list the declared emergencies eligible (date wise) but it also acknowledges that more than military forces deploy and is secondary to military honors. I'm also struggling as there exists federal long service awards for several professions - policing/fire etc. separate from the CD award and I don't want to confuse the two.

All I can say here is: WOW! Talke about going overboard. Realistically, stop and give your suggestions here some serious thought as to how much of the Defence Budget do you now want to spend on medals and bars?

Sorry, but when I was a Boy Scout, I was in a Troop that preferred to be good at scouting skills, than getting badges, and we excelled over other Troops at Camporees, beating all others. I sort of have the "We don't need no stinking badges" attitude. You seem to be of the "I need a lot of badges to prove who I am" group. You are looking for an award for everything you do, when it is all part of your job. Is there anything that you don't want a medal or bar for?

 

[mariomike]

I sort of have the "We don't need no stinking badges" attitude.

I think they are interesting in the military, because they tell a story about the member's history.

For muni 9-1-1, there's not much to say. Same schedule, same station, same partner.

A nice watch at the end is sufficient.

 

[foresterab]

All I can say here is: WOW! Talke about going overboard. Realistically, stop and give your suggestions here some serious thought as to how much of the Defence Budget do you now want to spend on medals and bars?

Sorry, but when I was a Boy Scout, I was in a Troop that preferred to be good at scouting skills, than getting badges, and we excelled over other Troops at Camporees, beating all others. I sort of have the "We don't need no stinking badges" attitude. You seem to be of the "I need a lot of badges to prove who I am" group. You are looking for an award for everything you do, when it is all part of your job.

Appreciate the response as there is valid merit in only acknowledging the exemplarity work. On the counter point is a medal also acknowledges some of the sacrifice folks take to volunteer/enlist, impacts to families and the recognition of the country to their service. Note I'm a civilian, have never served, and while I wear a uniform medals are very rare sights to see in our organization - usually only from former CAF members.

I think of it as a couple of tiers:

Military Combat/Valor recognition. My only knock on these is that Canada seems to recognize general staff/SNCO's disproportionally to enlisted personelle

Then there are the theater awards. Similar to WW2 stars depending on the theater you served in you received it or not.

What is missing is a better recognition for a Canadian theater - or domestic ops. Not all CAF members will deploy out of province let alone country but there is nothing wrong with acknowledging a CAF member enlisted, trained and only served within the country and may deployed on a Canadian tour of domestic response. Britain for example has their General Service Medal where a clasp would be identified for N. Ireland vs. mine clearance ops vs. geographic service areas (mission specific).

Then there are the long service awards - The CD is the main one. But I also think of the older WW2 Defense medal that might be appropriate to recognize service under 12 years in length...and only issued upon honorable release from the CAF. Because at the end of the day you signed on the dotted line to defend the country.

Commemoration awards - King's Coronation, Queens Jubilee. Hate the randomness associated with it...should be to all members in the CAF at the time of event.

Provincial/foreign awards

There is a wide range of awards out there due to the wide range of UN Missions - each of which tells a story - and might also qualify you for the Peacekeeping medal. Frankly again there is a recognition of a person representing their country that medal shows.

What I respect though is the fact that a member of the CAF, in uniform or not, serving or retired, signed up to defend the nation. Medals tell more of the story about the individual but makes no difference in the respect that person has earned in my books by volunteering.

foresterab

 

[George Wallace]

I think they are interesting for the military, because they tell a story about the member's history.

For muni 9-1-1, there's not much to say. Same schedule, same station, same partner.

So? We are to become "Show and Tell"? Do we really need to go down that road? I don't think that is necessary between fellow military, where those stories often fly about in casual conversation, and when it comes to civilians, I seriously doubt many civilians actually give a hoot.

If you want to look South of the border, their award system is something like what foresterab is suggesting, with awards given out for almost everything under the sun, like "hygiene in the field"; but theirs is also not all medals and bars. Theirs is mostly ribbons only, and specialty badges. A whole different system.

I'll still harp back to "Our Government is Cheap". A Government that can't even get its' shit together to give awards to some Afghan Veterans for extreme acts of courage. Wanting a medal for a Domestic Op seems rather trivial in comparison.

 

[brihard]

All I can say here is: WOW! Talke about going overboard. Realistically, stop and give your suggestions here some serious thought as to how much of the Defence Budget do you now want to spend on medals and bars?

Sorry, but when I was a Boy Scout, I was in a Troop that preferred to be good at scouting skills, than getting badges, and we excelled over other Troops at Camporees, beating all others. I sort of have the "We don't need no stinking badges" attitude. You seem to be of the "I need a lot of badges to prove who I am" group. You are looking for an award for everything you do, when it is all part of your job. Is there anything that you don't want a medal or bar for?

That’s a bit harsh. You’ve been away for a while, but we’ve gotten to know @foresterab over the spring and summer, and he’s putting the work in more than most here. He could do a lot less and a lot easier work for a lot more recognition. For myself, my hat’s off to him.

 

[kratz]

So? We are to become "Show and Tell"? Do we really need to go down that road? I don't think that is necessary between fellow military, where those stories often fly about in casual conversation, and when it comes to civilians, I seriously doubt many civilians actually give a hoot.

If you want to look South of the border, their award system is something like what foresterab is suggesting, with awards given out for almost everything under the sun, like "hygiene in the field"; but theirs is also not all medals and bars. Theirs is mostly ribbons only, and specialty badges. A whole different system.

I'll still harp back to "Our Government is Cheap". A Government that can't even get its' shit together to give awards to some Afghan Veterans for extreme acts of courage. Wanting a medal for a Domestic Op seems rather trivial in comparison.

When I asked the civilians in my research, they were offered six options for recognition, and over 30% indicated a strong interest in a volunteer service medal. That's more than a hoot.

 

[George Wallace]

Appreciate the response as there is valid merit in only acknowledging the exemplarity work. On the counter point is a medal also acknowledges some of the sacrifice folks take to volunteer/enlist, impacts to families and the recognition of the country to their service. Note I'm a civilian, have never served, and while I wear a uniform medals are very rare sights to see in our organization - usually only from former CAF members.

You have to remember, that a military person, who has made it a career, will go on dozens, perhaps hundreds, of deployments as part of their "job". No one has the chest to accommodate the medals you are suggesting.

On the Civilian side, there are Provincial Awards. There are also National Awards, as well. Police, Corrections and Fire Services also have their Awards. All of these are medals. Civilians can also earn UN medals, as you mention later.

Military Combat/Valor recognition. My only knock on these is that Canada seems to recognize general staff/SNCO's disproportionally to enlisted personelle

Yes. Unfortunately, you are correct there. At the same time, they are getting a 'higher' award that is meeting criteria that lower ranks may not meet.

Then there are the theater awards. Similar to WW2 stars depending on the theater you served in you received it or not.

What is missing is a better recognition for a Canadian theater - or domestic ops. Not all CAF members will deploy out of province let alone country but there is nothing wrong with acknowledging a CAF member enlisted, trained and only served within the country and may deployed on a Canadian tour of domestic response. Britain for example has their General Service Medal where a clasp would be identified for N. Ireland vs. mine clearance ops vs. geographic service areas (mission specific).

Then there are the long service awards - The CD is the main one. But I also think of the older WW2 Defense medal that might be appropriate to recognize service under 12 years in length...and only issued upon honorable release from the CAF. Because at the end of the day you signed on the dotted line to defend the country.

Commemoration awards - King's Coronation, Queens Jubilee. Hate the randomness associated with it...should be to all members in the CAF at the time of event.

Provincial/foreign awards

There is a wide range of awards out there due to the wide range of UN Missions - each of which tells a story - and might also qualify you for the Peacekeeping medal. Frankly again there is a recognition of a person representing their country that medal shows.

What I respect though is the fact that a member of the CAF, in uniform or not, serving or retired, signed up to defend the nation. Medals tell more of the story about the individual but makes no difference in the respect that person has earned in my books by volunteering.

foresterab

If you are wondering about the criteria set for Canadian Honours, Medals and Awards, here are a couple Government of Canada links, and you may find that some of your concerns about creating awards, those criteria have already been created:

Medals and awards - Canada.ca

Canadian military honours and recognition, orders, decorations, medals, insignia, departmental awards and memorials.

www.canada.ca

Canadian Medals Chart - Canada.ca

This chart shows the sequence to wear modern Canadian orders, decorations and medals.

www.canada.ca

 

[MJP]

All I can say here is: WOW! Talke about going overboard. Realistically, stop and give your suggestions here some serious thought as to how much of the Defence Budget do you now want to spend on medals and bars?

Sorry, but when I was a Boy Scout, I was in a Troop that preferred to be good at scouting skills, than getting badges, and we excelled over other Troops at Camporees, beating all others. I sort of have the "We don't need no stinking badges" attitude. You seem to be of the "I need a lot of badges to prove who I am" group. You are looking for an award for everything you do, when it is all part of your job. Is there anything that you don't want a medal or bar for?

I don't think a discussion surrounding the topic needs just such hyperbole. @foreststab and other have raise some very salient points about the nature and failings of the current H&A system and the perceived gaps. One can argue their point without going down the road of calling the other's side unrealistic and they just need to stop and think about it. Your post quoted (and your others) have great points but they are lost in the tone. I mean you can post however you want but when it is the "same old man yelling at clouds style" people just start tuning you out.

Aware this is straying off topic but I would almost think it's separate awards...one for a military security deployment and one for more generic domestic response.

I'd prefer something like European Security and Defence Policy Service Medal (ESDP) - Canada.ca where it's either X days on military duties (Olympics, G8 response force etc.) or a select activation for a national crisis - FLQ and Oka in my mind should be select bars - with no deployment limit.

This would be a Military/RCMP only award:

Then this is domestic ops within Canada - issued when you deploy on Ops Lentus to a declared state of emergency - and I think of 30? 45 days? where you receive a bar for each set of time established on forest fires, floods, search and rescue, medical response, avalanche?. So a member of the reserves who deployed on forest fires multiple times may have a two bars for forest fires while someone like a serving member of the SARTEC's may have multiple for SAR missions. Not sure of all the different missions between artillery avalanche control in BC to COVID Nursing home assistance to Swiss Air Flight 111 - fire and floods make more sense to me.

This would be eligible not just to RCMP/Military but also volunteer aid groups (Team Rubicon for example). Would require each province or territory to list the declared emergencies eligible (date wise) but it also acknowledges that more than military forces deploy and is secondary to military honors. I'm also struggling as there exists federal long service awards for several professions - policing/fire etc. separate from the CD award and I don't want to confuse the two.

I am not saying those should be adopted but Western military forces, including Canada, are currently facing challenges in both recruiting and retaining personnel. While there are numerous strategies outside of Honors and Awards (H&A) that could address this issue, H&A remains a significant source of pride for many service members. It consistently sparks passionate discussions, underscoring the importance of uniform insignia as a symbol of recognition and achievement. As a serious military organization, it is essential that we periodically assess whether our systems and processes, largely inherited from British traditions, align with the demands of today’s environment. The H&A system is no exception, and while it largely serves its purpose, there may still be opportunities for enhancement. For instance, many other militaries worldwide have introduced interim service medals and domestic service awards, which could be worth exploring for Canadian Forces.

 

[quadrapiper]

Appreciate the response as there is valid merit in only acknowledging the exemplarity work. On the counter point is a medal also acknowledges some of the sacrifice folks take to volunteer/enlist, impacts to families and the recognition of the country to their service. Note I'm a civilian, have never served, and while I wear a uniform medals are very rare sights to see in our organization - usually only from former CAF members.

I think of it as a couple of tiers:

Military Combat/Valor recognition. My only knock on these is that Canada seems to recognize general staff/SNCO's disproportionally to enlisted personelle

Then there are the theater awards. Similar to WW2 stars depending on the theater you served in you received it or not.

What is missing is a better recognition for a Canadian theater - or domestic ops. Not all CAF members will deploy out of province let alone country but there is nothing wrong with acknowledging a CAF member enlisted, trained and only served within the country and may deployed on a Canadian tour of domestic response. Britain for example has their General Service Medal where a clasp would be identified for N. Ireland vs. mine clearance ops vs. geographic service areas (mission specific).

Then there are the long service awards - The CD is the main one. But I also think of the older WW2 Defense medal that might be appropriate to recognize service under 12 years in length...and only issued upon honorable release from the CAF. Because at the end of the day you signed on the dotted line to defend the country.

Commemoration awards - King's Coronation, Queens Jubilee. Hate the randomness associated with it...should be to all members in the CAF at the time of event.

Provincial/foreign awards

There is a wide range of awards out there due to the wide range of UN Missions - each of which tells a story - and might also qualify you for the Peacekeeping medal. Frankly again there is a recognition of a person representing their country that medal shows.

What I respect though is the fact that a member of the CAF, in uniform or not, serving or retired, signed up to defend the nation. Medals tell more of the story about the individual but makes no difference in the respect that person has earned in my books by volunteering.

foresterab

@Booter's concept would be worth looking at, whether with a civil and military category for a certain medal, or looking at awarding a federal "yes, they were there" bar to a common Civil Defence etc. medal.

As for coronation etc. medals: just give it to everyone in Federal service, from Pte Bloggins to Under-clerk Lee at CRA to Cst Jones in N Van to Dr. Smith studying ptarmigan in the Artic as an acknowledgement they were taking part in the Canadian project on this day.

 

[mariomike]

If you want to look South of the border, their award system is something like what foresterab is suggesting, with awards given out for almost everything under the sun, like "hygiene in the field"; but theirs is also not all medals and bars.

America's largest city keeps it simple.

NYPD and FDNY ( firefighters and paramedics ) ONLY wear departmental bling on their uniforms.

NO federal bling is worn on City of New York uniforms.

NYC has plenty enough bling of their own.

fdny medals - Google Search

 

[brihard]

America's largest city keeps it simple.

NYPD and FDNY ( firefighters and paramedics ) ONLY wear departmental bling on their uniforms.

NO federal bling is worn on City of New York uniforms.

NYC has plenty enough bling of their own.

The United States Doesn’t have one nearly coherent national system of honours like we do. Which is an understandable product of the much great status afforded the states, and not having a ‘Crown as the font of honour’ as we do. Canada’s municipal and provincial bling is quite limited in comparison, and a lot of it at our provincial level has been incorporated into the national honours system.

 

[mariomike]

NYC has the right idea.

We were sent into family homes. The family would see the partner with "the impressive rack" as the expert.

Even if "the expert" was a probie and their partner had been on the dept. for decades.

Might not be the best way for a probie with "an impressive rack" to get started on the right foot with a senior partner they are going to be cooped up with 40 hours a week, possibly for many years.

 

[Furniture]

NYC has the right idea.

We were sent into family homes. The family would see the partner with "the impressive rack" as the expert.

Even if "the expert" was a probie and their partner had been on the dept. for decades.

Might not be the best way for a probie with "an impressive rack" to get started on the right foot with a senior partner they are going to be cooped up with 40 hours a week, possibly for many years.

Except I've never seen paramedics in Canada wearing their medals in their working uniforms... So then is seems like it comes down to jealousy, as maybe that "probie" has previous experiences elsewhere that got them some gongs, and the "expert" doesn't.

 

[mariomike]

Except I've never seen paramedics in Canada wearing their medals in their working uniforms...

No reason ribbons couldn't be worn on street operations with the uniform we used to wear, if they felt the need to do so...

If life was better "elsewhere", why would anyone want to leave?

I think NYC has the right idea. May not be popular with some.

 

[Furniture]

If life was better "elsewhere", why would anyone want to leave?

I think NYC has the right idea. May not be popular with some.

Just because you have experience elsewhere does not mean "life was better"... In reality, the most useful experiences often come from times and places that weren't better.

I get it though, you have a very specific view of the world based on your experiences.

 

[PuckChaser]

We have other threads for domops medals. Please find those and leave this one for the Kings Coronation Medal.

- Milneta.ca Staff

 

[brihard]

We have other threads for domops medals. Please find those and leave this one for the Kings Coronation Medal.

- Milneta.ca Staff

The latest DOMOPS medal thread:

Thread 'Special Service Medal - Domestic Operations Bar'

22 Feb 2023

Petition e-4321 (National defence and military operations) has been published and is open for signature at this address. Petition e-4321 - Petitions

Petition to the Associate Minister of National Defence

Whereas:

Members of the Canadian Armed Forces deploy annually on Operations Palaci, Lentus, and more recently, Operation laser;

It is important to find timely and relevant ways to recognize the commitment to duty, sacrifice, and effort of our members;

The Special Service Medal was created to recognize members of the Canadian Armed Forces who take part in activities and...

• LJ15
• Replies: 304
• Forum: The Canadian Military