• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

K9 unit

Does the Canada Army need its own K9 unit

  • Yes

    Votes: 41 73.2%
  • No

    Votes: 15 26.8%

  • Total voters
    56
  • Poll closed .
Back in the days of AMF(L) deployments to North Norway (Bardufoss, anybody...?), I recall that the Recce Sqn of the Norgies' Brigade North had dogs. The purpose of these teams was explained to me as being the detection of the well concealed Spetsnatz who were expected to begin infiltration well ahead of the Soviet ground offensive. In that sense they were to be used "offensively" by actively going out and hunting down the enemy. I believe the Norgies also had MP dogs for facility protection.

Cheers
 
>"Monsieur, that's not my dog."

So, is the individual safety precaution then: "Does your dohg baht?"
 
"Therefore making them useless in mine clearing and for Patrol Units, other than being used to trip those devices, that IMO would certainly be cruel and inhumane."

- Pigs, on the other hand, might do VERY well at this.  I think that a pig unit may be impractical, however, largely for social/recruiting/retention reasons.  Particularly if it was to be manned as a Military Police unit.

There was an experiment in a Canadian prison involving mice or rats to sniff out drugs.  Extremely effective to the point where guard(s) on the take "forgot" to feed the rats and they "died", thus the experiment was shut down as a failure.

Maybe someone should have "forgot" to feed the guards responsible.

Tom
 
TCBF said:
- Pigs, on the other hand, might do VERY well at this.  I think that a pig unit may be impractical, however, largely for social/recruiting/retention reasons.  Particularly if it was to be manned as a Military Police unit.

An MP unit with badged swine ?

must.......not......write.......anymore.....<snicker> ;D
 
I know that in Bosnia in on Palladium Roto 2 1 RCR and had guys to do the Brit Dog Handler course for Patrol Arm True Dogs and used 2 dogs with Cdn Handlers in drvar for Patrolling and had another dog that could sniff out explosives handled by a brit for a limited time. The dogs were awesome for camp security and foot patrols because they could sniff people as well as work as a visual deterent ( particularly after daily demos to the locals). The main benefits was one dog team could help decrease the amount of guys required for camp security and patrols (within reason). I know the creation of the K9 units at the Rifle Coy level generated alot of buzz and recommendations after they were  proven effective and a lot of demos were given to higher ups. But they stopped sending guys on the course after the following Roto for some reason.
 
Since leaving the Forces in '98, I have been involved in SAR as a volunteer in a local group: http://www.scr.ca/ . Seeing the dogs perform is amazing. I also raise pups for seeing eye & assistance dog training http://www.mira.ca/ .

Most people have no clue to the value of trained K9 units. For explosives, booby traps, weapons & ammo caches & personnel detection. On OP, foot patrol, even aboard vehicles & boats dogs can provide valuable services.

In recent military conflicts with important K9 use such as Vietnam their value has been well documented (between 4000 & 5000 dogs were used in the Vietnam war:
http://www.uswardogs.org/index.html

If the CF developed K9 capability, I'd seriously consider rejoining.
 
Bring back the K-9's! 

If that had been a choice back when I joined I would have liked that one!



 
as one of a handful of CF pers trained by the Brits as a Dog Handler, and one of far less than a handful trained by them as Dog Trainers, I can only say that dogs are an incredibly versatile tool, useful for far more than simply patrolling compounds, or bomb-sniffing. THey are amazingingly effective at riot control (my dog was awarded the Dicken medal for his work in the Drvar riots. It's the animal equivalent to the VC.), and can be extremely handy on patrols in the woods. The uses are almost limitless.

I honestly cannot emphasize enough what a force multiplier they are.

The only problem we had was that they went back to the Brits over-weight, and a little lazy. And overly-friendly. (That's what happens when a bunch of Canucks have access to dogs and to excellent cooks.) One looked like a beer keg with legs and a tail. ::)
 
You lucky bugger - when did that happen? Ive never heard of our guys being trained on this before!

(Note to all - You got me! Something I know bugger all about!)
 
Centurian1985 said:
You lucky bugger - when did that happen? Ive never heard of our guys being trained on this before!

(Note to all - You got me! Something I know bugger all about!)
'97 - '98. And this should go a long way to identifying me even further. I think I'll just change my screen name to the one my Daddy gave me.

But dogs are an incredible asset. In any phase of war, in peace-keeping (Damn, but I hate that word!), in DOMOPs, basically, anywhere an Infantryman can be employed, a dog can. (Which says something, but I'm not sure what.) The fact that we no longer employ them is criminal, to my mind. Hellfire! They're even trained to parachute in some nations!

I see no reason we couldn't do it based on the Brit model, with a Cdn version of the Royal Army Veterinary Corps.
 
I dont believe they should be attached to certain units but placed where the need is.I seen a brit air crew had a black lab they would lower in a harness below the merlin.He would run around in a circle check the LZ and sit to the side to indicate it was clear.I though that was really neat.

Just on side note a really cute chick in banja luka had a boarder collie whith gold k-9 teeth,that was cool.
 
i thought at one time the 2Mp unit at Pet. had a MP and his dog for drugs.  I heard he got out and went to the OPP and took the dog with him. I thought dogs would make good members of the MP coy for various duties. drugs, search for people, bombs, etc. but i guess the cost out weighs the benefits. i am sure if we stay in some places long enough some one with some gold on the uniform will see the need and they will get them
 
GO!!! said:
It would be a pretty sweet go to be a K9 handler in the army.

I was thinking though, if your dog bites someone, do you get charged with an ND? NB?

HAHAHA... good one GO!!! I would think no... but that is me.... meh.. I"ll sleep on it.
 
GO!!! was making a funny. (Well, trying to, with his limited intellect, and all, Bless the li'l feller.) But, yeah, if our dog bit someone without us telling him to, it was considered the equivalent to an ND.
 
Dogs are a good tool for many tasks and also they will make a good partner. The British use a large pig that sniff out drugs and other items in heathor airport. Dogs are cheap to train and cost is low tech.
The CSC has start to use dogs to seek out drugs in there institutions for 10yrs. Drug coming in have drop just having the dog at the front door. In one institution they have caught over $23,500 in a four day peroid.
 
On cost I have to disagree.  Yeah they are cheap to train (in equipment and food), but doesnt it take a while to train these pups? Plus the housing, health and vets, fenced areas, screening soldiers to match the dogs, screening out dogs that 'dont have what it takes', etc.  Any experts able to comment on this?
 
Centurian1985 said:
On cost I have to disagree.  Yeah they are cheap to train (in equipment and food), but doesnt it take a while to train these pups? Plus the housing, health and vets, fenced areas, screening soldiers to match the dogs, screening out dogs that 'dont have what it takes', etc.  Any experts able to comment on this?
well, the Brit model isn't that pricey, over all.

They aren't trained from birth. It only takes a few weeks, with the proper selection. There's a Sr NCO of the RAVC whose only job is to drive around the British Isles and play with dogs. That's the selection process.

You see, in the UK (at least in the late '90s, anyway) if any dog bit a human twice, for any reason, it was destroyed. The only way to keep your pet alive was to give him to the Army. So, you'd call up the RAVC, and this Sgt would show up. He'd look at the pooch, test him for soundness, and play 'fetch' and 'tug of war'. If the dog was a better 'fetcher', or was a smaller breed, he'd most likely be a search dog.

If he was good at 'tug of war', had a bit of aggression and size to him, he'd likely be a patrol dog. Then he'd get conscripted, which gave him a few more years of life, and be trained. The training is done in such a way that it appeals to his instincts and sense of play. He's taught that it's a game, and most take to it very quickly. They only get fierce when it's real, but that's because he's picking up "Dad's" fear/anger vibes.

And the ones selected for search roles, aren't fierce at all, for the most part. They're playing! They're playing 'fetch' and 'hide and seek'.

As for screening the troops, it isn't done. You can ask for it, or be tasked, but it's just another task. You do it for 6 or 12 months, and rotate out when your unit does, or your TA contract expires. Then, someone else takes over your dog. You go through a short course, play with your pooch, learn what he already knows, and bingo! You're a Dog Handler. Your selection process is walking into his kennel when he's snarling and snapping at you through the wire mesh. If you can do it, he'll accept you. (The food dish in your hand helps.) Then you learn to care for him and his equipment, you clean his kennel and kit, and go play "sic 'em"! After he grabs you or his co-handler through the padded sleeve a few times, you guys grab some water, play a bit, and shut 'er down until patrol time.

For those dogs that simply don't have enough aggression, or intelligence, well... They're all already living under a death sentence, and theirs are carried out.

As for housing and such, it'd be pricey at first, but static kennels at a base, once built, would be good for years. Fences would only have to be the standard wire we already use to fence Infantrymen in, in Garrison. Their over-seas kennels are just el cheapo, insta-kennels slapped together, like Home Hardware garden sheds. The Engineers built a huge kennel for them in Camp Maple Leaf. They named it Jurassic Park. It was incredible, and it only took a couple grand and some serious sweat on Echo's part, Bless those boys. (The hard part was keeping them out of the dang thing. Everyone wanted to play with the dogs.)

Vets and such, in the Brit model, is taken care of through the Royal Army Veterinary Corps, whch, of course, we don't have. But, that's not insurmountable, either. We can just lure some of them away with better pay and pensions, like we did with certain other pers. They establish a school, and Robert is your Mother's brother. We're away.

It might be a little pricey at first, but not nearly as much as you might think, and the dividends would be huge! Freakin' HUGE! Dogs are amazing Force Multipliers! The psychological impact of a snarling German Shepard or Rottweiler is not to be underestimated. One dog had more impact on a rioting mob of Croats, than an entire armed Infantry platoon. And their usefulness on patrols in Vietnam is legendary. And we all know how effective they are at detecting arms/explosives.

The only downer is that they have to be destroyed after their Service, since they were already condemned. But the Army can give them another several years of life. And a pretty good one, too.
 
Vets and such, in the Brit model, is taken care of through the Royal Army Veterinary Corps, whch, of course, we don't have. But, that's not insurmountable, either. We can just lure some of them away with better pay and pensions, like we did with certain other pers. They establish a school, and Robert is your Mother's brother. We're away.
just take those that "wash out" from medical training. If they "screw the pooch" with the pooches - the pooch will bite - how's that for motivating a low achiever ;)
 
paracowboy said:
...The only downer is that they have to be destroyed after their Service, since they were already condemned...

As a dog lover & trainer that's a BIG downer  for me. It's like putting down soldiers that have seen action, beacause they are "damaged" & their social re-incertion in mainstream society is difficult... I'm sure there's a better way to do things than what has been done before. The handlers ARE further "damaged" when they must leave their K9 behind and knowing they are put down after their period of service must be gut wrenching.

In my ideal world: a handler & his K9 are partners and should be treated as such, they train together, serve together & are demobilised together.
 
Back
Top