Hah! Well played.
Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
- Thread starter George Wallace
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lenaitch
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Apparently only if you are from Alberta, it's Grey Cup weekend and it's the lobby of the Royal York Hotel (ah, the good ol' days).
There's a fair bit of bravado going on here by folks who probably haven't had to face a situation like this. As the clip starts out, I see a couple, maybe three cops. A lot more towards the end. We don't even know if an NCO or Duty Inspector made it on the scene. If the on-scene response we see is a few street coppers acting on their assessment and training, to me that says something unto itself. They're trying to keep the peace as best they can and diffuse the situation. Everybody it seems went home with all their teeth and the protestors had their moment in the artificial sun. Who knows, we may read that Loud Mouth #1 is arrested in the next day or two.
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
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Will you settle for an elevator (True Lies)?
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Is it bravado, or the natural reaction of people who have been raised in a civil society where threating to kill someone is against the law?
That gangs of thugs get to stalk the streets/malls and threaten people without obvious punishment destroys the basic fabric of civil society.
I get that it was a dicey situation for the on site police, but the more these types of videos come out, the greater the likelihood this behaviour continues and escalates.
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The horse was wearing rubber hoof covers.
lenaitch
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Perhaps, but I would think many members on here don't necessarily here equate to the general, and generally uninformed, public.
I get the erosion argument. Perhaps legislators, courts and police oversight bodies need to wear some of that.
And it still slipped. I was on that same ground a short time later and it was sheet ice.
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351(2) Every one who, with intent to commit an indictable offence, has his face masked or coloured or is otherwise disguised is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years.
So, let’s focus on Assault. First, you should know that Assault occurs when an individual intentionally, directly, or indirectly applies force against a person without their consent. Or he may attempt or threaten to apply such force.
My cursory reading as a layman, makes me think they could have grabbed this guy and made an example. I wonder if uttering threats could be extended to anyone calling for the genocide of Jews.
I'm sure someone will come and correct me shortly, if I have it wrong.
Them wearing masks, in public while protesting, tells me they're nothing but cowards.
criminallawyerregina.ca
Is Assault an Indictable Offence in Canada?
Is Assault an indictable Offence in Canada? It is one of the most common questions we get. Not all assaults are present in the Criminal Code of Canada. But certain assaults may be a part of serious crime.So, let’s focus on Assault. First, you should know that Assault occurs when an individual intentionally, directly, or indirectly applies force against a person without their consent. Or he may attempt or threaten to apply such force.
Common Assault
Includes, but is not limited to, violent physical contact, as well as verbal and physical threats.Threats to Cause Death or Injury.
Words, writings, or gestures that promise to kill or injure a person.My cursory reading as a layman, makes me think they could have grabbed this guy and made an example. I wonder if uttering threats could be extended to anyone calling for the genocide of Jews.
I'm sure someone will come and correct me shortly, if I have it wrong.
Them wearing masks, in public while protesting, tells me they're nothing but cowards.
Criminal Code of Canada - section 351(2) - Disguise with intent
Under section 351(2) of the Criminal Code of Canada anyone who is disguised with the intent to commit an indictable offence is guilty.
www.criminal-code.ca
Indictable Offence in Canada [Charges] : The Ultimate Guide - Regina Criminal Defence Lawyers
An indictable offence in Canada is very important when it comes to punishing criminals. So, here's the ultimate guide to knowing everything you need.
criminallawyerregina.ca
OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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A few strokes from a collapsible baton would go a long way to de escalation. Just sayin - in the right time and place.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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We have some here at work that might fit that bill ....and speak the language too
No, you’re about right- if intent to commit an offense can be proven, then disguise is its own offense. That’s the tricky bit though- the disguise has to be with that underlying criminal intent, not just an incidental fact. I think it would be tough to satisfy that with this fact set.351(2) Every one who, with intent to commit an indictable offence, has his face masked or coloured or is otherwise disguised is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years.
Is Assault an Indictable Offence in Canada?
Is Assault an indictable Offence in Canada? It is one of the most common questions we get. Not all assaults are present in the Criminal Code of Canada. But certain assaults may be a part of serious crime.
So, let’s focus on Assault. First, you should know that Assault occurs when an individual intentionally, directly, or indirectly applies force against a person without their consent. Or he may attempt or threaten to apply such force.
Common Assault
Includes, but is not limited to, violent physical contact, as well as verbal and physical threats.
Threats to Cause Death or Injury.
Words, writings, or gestures that promise to kill or injure a person.
My cursory reading as a layman, makes me think they could have grabbed this guy and made an example. I wonder if uttering threats could be extended to anyone calling for the genocide of Jews.
I'm sure someone will come and correct me shortly, if I have it wrong.
Them wearing masks, in public while protesting, tells me they're nothing but cowards.
Criminal Code of Canada - section 351(2) - Disguise with intent
Under section 351(2) of the Criminal Code of Canada anyone who is disguised with the intent to commit an indictable offence is guilty.www.criminal-code.ca
Indictable Offence in Canada [Charges] : The Ultimate Guide - Regina Criminal Defence Lawyers
An indictable offence in Canada is very important when it comes to punishing criminals. So, here's the ultimate guide to knowing everything you need.
Calling for genocide of Jews (or anyone really) would also be a separate offense, not captured by uttering threads. See s.318 CC. Public Incitement of Hatred (Offence) - Criminal Law Notebook
GR66
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Doesn’t do it for me. I own that mask.
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That's friggin hilarious.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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Not sure I want to know why........
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You may want to rethink that statement, I’ve played the I may go down but I’m sure as shit going to go down with a lot of bodies beside me game on multiple occasions. In my experience even very violent criminals generally don’t have the will to stand and fight someone who is willing and capable of killing then even when they have numbers on their side, that goes for all sort of gangs domestically and insurgents overseas.
Inaction simply emboldens them that in up coming encounters they may decide to jump officers that don’t have the same skills/mindset etc.
I’m much more of a make a statement sort of guy. If you see someone uttering death threats in a public place - you as a LEO have a duty to act. Yes it may have escalated the situation, which I’m not sure would have been a bad thing in the big picture. The fact is inaction emboldens group like that, and even an arrest at the fact doesn’t carry the same weight as seeing someone manhandled to the ground cuffed and dragged out by the hair (okay I’m somewhat exaggerating with the dragging out by the hair aspect).
Western society must act forcefully in these situations or we are going to have larger problems.
lenaitch
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Philosophically, you may be right that western society may pay for our more passive approach, but I think it would first have to signal to individual law enforcement members that it will stand behind them as they are dragged through the mud for their actions. 'Society' isn't the entity that has to answer for its action and consequences.
Perhaps not responding to events such as this by charging with horses, using water cannons, firearms or stroking them with truncheons is what separates us from other countries we see on the news.
I can think of a number of circumstances where crowds aren't cowed in the face of law enforcement; admittedly likely by emboldened by the knowledge that they won't die. FN blockades and protests, even university homecomings come to mind. Even if they had the organization and leadership in the early stages (which they didn't), ending the 'truckers's protest' in Ottawa couldn't have been done with the bodies they had available in the early days. Yes, the small handful of coppers could have taken Loud Mouth #1 down in the mall, but it would likely consume all three of them, with no capacity to deal with the fallout should it not magically deescalate.
If that use of force can be justified in a lawful performance of their duty, perhaps. Stroking people just to get them to STFU would probably be a hard sell.
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Good point, but to me the biggest issue was the actions of those protesters where creating an atmosphere where the rest of the mall goers where not feeling safe, and as such, public action was required
I’m a big Judge Dredd fan, thought I know that won’t go over in North America.
I still don’t think that it’s unreasonable for one officer to approach LM#1 and ask him to step over to the side, then have him up against the wall.
I’ve been involved in a few incidents with LAPD when with 3 of their patrol officers (one Sgt) and me, they’ve taken to putting 30+ folks up against a wall, anyone who resists, well they reap what they sow.
I’ve also been the lone backup for a solo officer who has arrived at a 3 on 4 gunfight - most gang bangers are posture only and if you ventilate one or two of them, the rest tend to throw out their guns and raise their hands. Very few even hardcore criminals want to die, and when confronted with a force that has no qualms about killing them, they 99.9% time chose more jail time.
For LE to truly be effective one not just needs to enforce the laws, just as importantly the miscreants need to understand the penalty for resistance is severe.
Some of the FN issues are a lose lose situation, you’re going to be damned if you do, or damned if you don’t.
Fear is the mind killer. I’m a big fan of firm fair friendly, up till it’s time not to be friendly.
I don’t see any point in using force when a word can be used instead, if one can separate the trouble maker(s) it makes it easier to deal with, if they refuse to be separated from the rest, then they chose that route, and any resultant issues that come from it.
Yes I realize that I’m armchair quarterbacking, but I just don’t think that the best results for the long run came about from the more passive approach to this incident.
