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Is the "Fifth Column" at work in Canada ?

Blindspot said:
40below said:
I'm not quite sure what your point is, George, except you didn't like what you read in the paper and you needed to vent.

Not to speak for George; he can correct me if I'm wrong:

His point is that the lies, false supposition and reliance of suspect 'experts' used by the media is purposefully crafted in some cases to undermine the Canadian Forces and the foreign policies of the government, acting like the propaganda arm of the enemy to influence Canadians.

What's so hard to understand?

Branding journalists as Fifth Columnists who loathe our troops is akin to the lefties characterizing all members of the Canadian Forces in Afghanistan as trigger-happy killers. It just isn't a convincing argument.

You act like it doesn't happen.

I would say that is a fair analysis.  

One doesn't have to knowingly aid and abet the enemy.  One can be totally oblivious to what they are doing to aid and abet the enemy.  Many members of the Press and Political Parties of the Communist, Socialist or NDP ilk fall into one or both categories.  Perhaps I should point out the "Killing with Keyboards" thread once again to demonstrate the second category?  

As to the questions of "Freedom of the Press"; that doesn't permit the Press to print or publish in any form or media anything and everything.  There still are Libel Laws and the Official Secrets Act, as well as numerous other Laws that protect the rights of individuals.  "Freedom of the Press" is really just a fancy buzzword.  The Press is still held to the same Laws as you and I.

Are the Press hypocrites when they demand to know and publish State Secrets, but at the same time protest against Security Cameras, Red Light Cameras, Photo Radar, etc.?  Of course they are.  This is apples and apples.  Both are the same arguments.  Actions of the State to protect the Citizens, from enemies and themselves.  The Press just want to have their cake and eat it too.  
 
40below said:
Sure is. If you look at the last post on the previous page, you'll see a poster boldly asserting that the press is an agent, willing or not, of The Enemy, i.e., the Taliban. The Canadian media may receive a covert morning briefing from a Mullah in the mountains of Pakistan, but I have to say, unlike many of the posters here, I've seen no evidence of it. Would make a hell of a story, though.

I agree that a good story could be had of the Taliban issuing propaganda directives to the Canadian media even though I also see no evidence of it. What I do see evidence of are journalists who believe Canada's version of Vietnam is their's for the reporting; that all of their liberal, anti-American, protesting, hippie, journalist, university professors were right and Canada is merely an imperialistic pawn of the United States carrying out the oppression of the poor, downtrodden, Taliban farmer. It's not about the truth anymore. It's anti-authority, anti-establishment, anti-Americanism.
 
Not to point out the obvious, but the job of the press isn't to report the "truth" to you, the press gets paid by selling eyeballs to advertisers, and there's an amazing amount of competition for those limited eyeballs.  Their job is to report stories that will generate those eyeballs, and when there's no story available that will enrage the public enough, one must be drummed up...usually with opinion pieces.  Want higher readership?  Try inventing a scandal.

Blindspot said:
It's not about the truth anymore. It's anti-authority, anti-establishment, anti-Americanism.

True.....because that's the stuff the population wants to read about...it generates the readership that generates the ad revenue and eventually the paycheque.

Anti-CF pieces generally make me say "meh" and move on.  Not worth getting excited about.  Definitely not something to start thinking that there might be some clandestine, semi-organized campaign to undermine the war effort underway.
 
hauger said:
Not to point out the obvious, but the job of the press isn't to report the "truth" to you, the press gets paid by selling eyeballs to advertisers, and there's an amazing amount of competition for those limited eyeballs.  Their job is to report stories that will generate those eyeballs, and when there's no story available that will enrage the public enough, one must be drummed up...usually with opinion pieces.  Want higher readership?  Try inventing a scandal.

Do you really think that the press' ultimate responsibility to answer to their shareholders is lost on us? Of course they have an agenda. There IS profit to be made from the stories they choose to print. That's exactly why their own biasness' and spins exist. That's been said many many times on this forum.

Soldier = bias FOR the soldier -- usually backed up by facts, and fired for effect, in an attempt to point out how it actually is down here in the trenchs where the fighting, dieing, and dirty work is occuring. And to point out all those very little (but VERY important) facts that the MSM likes to overlook because they don't lend spin or "add value" to the story version being pused by their esteemed BUSINESS' that day. That's right - business', for that is exactly what they are. "For profit" at that.

Media = bias FOR whatever story is going to make them the most profit that day. What's getting the ratings? What'll sell the rag? What'll draw in the viewership? What will keep the shareholders happy at the next meeting and thus, keep them their jobs? (I will acknowledge that there are some media outlets [caveat: overwhelmingly NOT of the MSM type] that are very good at providing factual and unbiased reportage). There ARE dimes to be made by the media -- many many hundreds of thousands of dimes ... and anyone who'd profess to sit on this site and state that that does not lead to any biasness in topics/facts/spin presented for public consumption by some in the media -- is flat out lying.

You want transparency?? At least george IS a soldier whi is admittedly FOR the soldier.

meanwhile ... 40below can continue on his/her merry little way pretending not to be from the "other side" of that fence. Perhaps they'll even write their next story on that? Bet you the byline doesn't read 40below though.

Yeah ri-ight ... no biasness on the part of 40below in here (or admitted to as per the response noting only the soldiers' biasness) -- none at all. Apparently, even those involved in the media see only bias' in others ... gawd forbid they admit their own.  ;)
 
hauger said:
Not to point out the obvious, but the job of the press isn't to report the "truth" to you, the press gets paid by selling eyeballs to advertisers, and there's an amazing amount of competition for those limited eyeballs.  Their job is to report stories that will generate those eyeballs, and when there's no story available that will enrage the public enough, one must be drummed up...usually with opinion pieces.  Want higher readership?  Try inventing a scandal.

I sure hope you were being at the very least, a little sarcastic there.  Your opinion of what the Press is, is far different from what my opinion of what the Press is.

My opinion of what the Press are responsible to do; is to "Inform", not "incite" as you allude.  You may have missed my use of the word "responsible" in the first sentence, so I will reinforce my statement by restating it in this sentence.  The Press are responsible for what they write.  They do not have "Freedom" to print slander, racist, untruths, or any other articles that may cross the line of legality.  Yes, they have to make a profit; but they don't have to create "Fiction" to do so.  That is what we have Publishers for and professional Authors.  Journalism is about the "Facts".  The Facts are: National Security is not open to public scrutiny in all matters.
 
- The Media in Canada is not the Fifth Column.  The Media are  "useful idiots" used by the so-called fifth column.  The Fifth Column would, in our case, consist of a disjointed array of 'Homeland Terrorists' using Canada as a recruiting and funding base, armed radical religious/nationalistic groups, EastBloc born criminal gangs beginning to infiltrate our political and bureaucratic systems and drug funded Aboriginal Gangs operating under the cover story of 'sacred ground' incidents.

- That should keep us busy for awhile.
 
Then you have things like this:

Rescue planes may not last, review warns
Continued support 'very precarious' for aging and balky CC-115 Buffalos that patrol B.C. and Yukon, study finds

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080526.PLANES26/TPStory/National

The Canadian military has been warned internally that there's no guarantee the aging search-and-rescue planes it uses to patrol the West Coast and B.C. mountains will be able to keep running until 2015, the date for replacement aircraft recently unveiled by the Harper government.

The former Liberal government earmarked $1.3-billion in the 2004 budget to buy new search-and-rescue planes for Canada as early as January, 2009, but they didn't move ahead with it and neither has the Harper government.

Instead, the Conservatives have so far focused military equipment spending on items that are useful for the war in Afghanistan, such as the $3.4-billion paid for gigantic C-17 cargo-lifter planes last year.

In the meantime, Canada's aging search and rescue planes, such as the 41-year-old CC-115 Buffalos that patrol British Columbia and Yukon coastlines and mountains, have been plagued by breakdowns, a shortage of parts and frequent downtime for repairs...

In other words that nasty Afghan war will be putting at risk the lives of lost Canadians here at home.

Mark
Ottawa

 
Plus this in the Globe today:

Afghanistan: colonialism or counterinsurgency?
Americans bring Afghans their new 60-year plan

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080530.wreckoning0531/BNStory/International/

More at the second part of this Torch post:
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2008/05/afstan-canadians-back-in-combatyankee.html

Mark
Ottawa


 
MarkOttawa - not sure what your point is in posting these articles. Pls explain.

George Wallace - I believe that the media have the responsibility to both inform and  (as you would put it) 'incite'.  That's what editorials are - opinions intended to sway public opinion.  That's why the print media have columnists - to present opinions, often strong ones - for and against.  Letters to the editor are often 'incitement' for or against.

What is important is that the two functions are kept as separate as possible. Having worked (briefly) as a reporter, objectivity is indeed the goal in the mainstream media's newsrooms, but is very difficult to hit across the board.  Once you move to the editorial page however, objectivity can fly out the window, because it is all opinion.

Moreover, just because a reporter writes a story showing the CF in a bad light does not always or automatically mean that they are 'anti-military' or 'left-wing'.  I find it sad to say, but the exposure of the Somalia scandal years ago probably resulted in the revitalization of the CF.  The problems, so apparent to so many of us at the time - careerism, coverups, nepotism, etc - could no longer be ignored.  The CF is a much better, a much more professional organization now than it was then.  In another light, a reporter who writes about systemic waste in DND could actually be doing the worker-bee-level soldier a favour; if that waste was cut off, hopefully the money could be redirected to something important. 

None of this justifies the release of information that will have an impact on operations or put our troops in danger. That's cast in concrete.  But much of what is written, even if we find it annoying, will not effect OPSEC at all. 

Next point -  I think we can all remember people in our careers whom we would have loved to have had under the microscope, but (speaking just for myself) if I am doing a good job, I have no objection to somebody saying that. OPSEC aside, what am I trying to hide and why? If I am doing a bad job on the other hand, what would be even more objectionable would be my inefficiency being tolerated or covered up or hidden.

One last, key point - in this democratic system, flawed and inefficient as it may be, it is public money being spent. The Army works for and represents the citizens.  Barring OPSEC implications, they have the right to know what their employees are doing with their money.  In this society, the way the public is informed is through the media.

So, no, I do not think the media are Canada's fifth column. Being ignorant, they are easily swayed and often make silly mistakes, but few are malevolent and most really on our side.  If you want to find real enemies,real threats, try looking at who is trying to use the media, and for what purposes.
 
I think we should start looking at our centers of learning more.

Remember the Commies?
 
TCBF said:
- The Media in Canada is not the Fifth Column.  The Media are  "useful idiots" used by the so-called fifth column.  The Fifth Column would, in our case, consist of a disjointed array of 'Homeland Terrorists' using Canada as a recruiting and funding base, armed radical religious/nationalistic groups, EastBloc born criminal gangs beginning to infiltrate our political and bureaucratic systems and drug funded Aboriginal Gangs operating under the cover story of 'sacred ground' incidents.

- That should keep us busy for awhile.

By your measuring stick I assume that you think that Christie Blanchford, Matthew Fisher, or Peter Worthington are examples of the "useful idiots used by the" Canadian Forces, because they have written articles which could be seen as supportive of the CF?
 
TrexLink: My point is that quite a few of our journalists write with what seems an obvious agenda behind their journalism.  I did a Torch post that mentioned the Saunders' piece in the Globe on US counterinsurgency efforts in eastern Afstan as example:
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2008/05/afstan-canadians-back-in-combatyankee.html

This comment on the post is right to the point:

Dave said...

    I just finished reading Mr. Saunders' remarkable analysis. Firstly, he practically punctuates this bit of pseudo-journalism with nasty backhand shots at the US and at American soldiers:

    "...Here, in the hills, you will find 200 wild-eyed U.S. Army soldiers living in a cluster of tents, sheltering themselves from regular rocket attacks." and "...They promptly began one of the key battlefield tactics of the new American military — the two-hour PowerPoint presentation." and "...the 173rd Airborne, an infantry brigade known for its battlefield ruthlessness...Here at the headwaters of the river, I felt I had encountered some latter-day Colonel Kurtzes, losing themselves in Cartesian twists of logic amid all the mud and dust."

    There you go with the West's Hard-Left cliche of American soldiers: wild-eyed enlisted men and led by officers gone mad.

    One moment he's tarring the US campaign strategy "In practice, I found, it looks and sounds a lot more like old-fashioned colonialism ... as reminiscent of "the early days of the British Raj"

    Then he goes on to contradict himself, "...No, the Americans here are trying to do what they should have done in Iraq five years ago: using former fighters to create enough of a counterbalance of goodwill to tip the scales in favour of their side." This logically implies his agreement with the correctness of American strategy in Iraq and that it would work in Af-stan.

    Mr. Saunders needs to repeat "Biased Writing 101" from Journalism School. Slanting a column in order to slam the subjects works far better if it's coherent, consistent and has a semblance of logic. It ought to have a veneer of freshness.

    Oh well, at least he didn't use the word "quagmire" or "fierce Afghan winter".

Mark
Ottawa
 
There are some, to be sure, with an agenda.  Then there are others with a very open, realistic, hard-nosed attitude; their stick normally comes out pretty pro-Army and we owe them a lot for the very positive opinion of the CF most people in Canada now have. In the middle are the rest of them...

There was one type who tried to stir up inter-unit trouble over there. He effectively found himself - very informally, nothing at all official - blacklisted; none of the troops would talk to him because they thought he was a %#!.  He went away.  It sorts itself out.
 
TrexLink said:
There was one type who tried to stir up inter-unit trouble over there. He effectively found himself - very informally, nothing at all official - blacklisted; none of the troops would talk to him because they thought he was a %#!.   He went away.   It sorts itself out.

This is the second time I heard this on army.ca,can anyone shed some light on this?What happened and between what unit's?
A name wouldnt hurt either.....post it here or feel free to pm me.
 
EW said:
By your measuring stick I assume that you think that Christie Blanchford, Matthew Fisher, or Peter Worthington are examples of the "useful idiots used by the" Canadian Forces, because they have written articles which could be seen as supportive of the CF?

No.  But, you probably knew that already.
 
Another CBCer goes to the dark side

http://www.insidethecbc.com/aljacorpa
 
The Globe and Mail at it again--a Torch post:

Two weeks later...
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2008/06/two-weeks-later.html

Mark
Ottawa
 
MarkOttawa said:
The Globe and Mail at it again--a Torch post:

Two weeks later...
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2008/06/two-weeks-later.html

Mark
Ottawa

Must be hot stuff.  The net nanny has a block on this one.

As for the others going over to the dark side.  Who knows how long they will hack it.  The earlier westerners who went over to the english side of that outfit did not stay overly long.  Maybe the money could not buy happiness.
 
the "toyoufromfallinghands" site is now blocked on the DIN, FWIW.
 
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