I need your help to attend a military hockey tournament

[Strike]

The way I'm reading that is that her home unit would have to pay for her to be on Class A time during practices and games.

 

[PuckChaser]

We have Cl A members playing hockey at CFB Kingston for the intersection leagues. Those members are permitted to play on their own time (and I presume own risk) and are not reimbursed for practices and games. Cl A members aren't allowed on Base Teams, they require a Cl B contract for the duration of the "season". This is far better than it used to be, Cl A members needed to buy a IS Sports Card for $20 to have the right to play with their unit teams on their own dime.

Occam is right, 50-3 was clarified about a year after. Its intent was to prevent people from being on MATA/PATA/other leave from going away on Regional/National sports tournaments and collecting TD, but everyone read into it more than that and some individuals weren't allowed to play when they had a short day on a Friday.

 

[CountDC]

hmmmm be interesting to see what happens down the road when one of those players get injured, are not able to work and submits a request for compensation.  Have seen some funnies with those and this may turn out to be another one.

 

[dapaterson]

As long as they fill out their "Exercise to stay in shape for the CF" form (the formal designation eludes me, but I beleive it's included with the LFCO on fitness) and include hockey on it, they are covered under the CBI for Reserve Disability Compensation.

So it's not hockey - it's a fitness activity on their own time.

 

[Aerobicrunner]

You got it Count DMC, each case will have its own unique circumstance and I had a recent Reserve Force Compensation (RFC) issue I had to deal with (To keep privacy but to provide information I have removed the team sport played. However, it was not an extreme activity). 


The Class A individual who was injured was playing [a team sport] with a garrison team and as a result of his leg injuries was unable to work in his civilian job.  [This team sport], along with several other team sports such as hockey and broomball, was recognized by the Base Commander as authorized sports for full time military pers. The individual played on the team on his own time and was not signed in.  (Reserve CO's will not allow individuals to sign in for team sports on their own time, as the costs associated would be prohibitive - i.e. signing in for every practice and game would be giving unfair financial advantage to those individuals - basically getting paid to compete in sports). 
However, it was argued that current policy (i.e. CANFORGEN 115/08) states that members are deemed to be on class A duty if injured in an authorized and prescribed fitness program when engaged in fitness activity.  The RFC was submitted and after going back and forth with NDHQ about what constitutes an prescribed activity, this was the response:

The request for Disability Compensation on behalf of xx was reviewed by DCSM.
Based on the information on the file, xx was injured while playing [the sport].  This activity does not fall in the parameters of CBI 210.72(4) - Deemed Class A Service, as [the sport] is not a prescribed activity, as part of an authorized fitness program of the CF Expres or the LFCPFS program.
If this was a Unit activity directed by his Commanding Officer, xx should have been signed in at the time of the injury, which he was not.
Unless further information is made available, this request cannot be approved.

P.S.  I noticed that the term Reserve Disability Compensation has been used.  CANFORGEN 115/08 also officially changed the name from "Compensation for Disability and Death Gratuity - Reserve Force" to "Reserve Force Compensation (RFC) During a Period of Injury, Disease or Illness."  I have to keep reminding unit Adjt's and Adm staff of that change of name

 

[dapaterson]

The request for Disability Compensation on behalf of xx was reviewed by DCSM.
Based on the information on the file, xx was injured while playing [the sport].  This activity does not fall in the parameters of CBI 210.72(4) - Deemed Class A Service, as [the sport] is not a prescribed activity, as part of an authorized fitness program of the CF Expres or the LFCPFS program.
If this was a Unit activity directed by his Commanding Officer, xx should have been signed in at the time of the injury, which he was not.
Unless further information is made available, this request cannot be approved.

P.S.  I noticed that the term Reserve Disability Compensation has been used.  CANFORGEN 115/08 also officially changed the name from "Compensation for Disability and Death Gratuity - Reserve Force" to "Reserve Force Compensation (RFC) During a Period of Injury, Disease or Illness."  I have to keep reminding unit Adjt's and Adm staff of that change of name

However, had Bloggins properly indicated on his exercise prescription form that he participated in inter-base tiddly-winks, his tiddly-winks injury would have been covered.  In my unit, at least, those forms are completed annually as part fo the DAG, and all soldiers are encouraged to include all exercise and physical activites they participate in.

Of course, were I Bloggins in this case, I would submit a grievance - there's a degree of subjectivity in this, together with an overly legalistic approach by DCSM.  CBI 210.72(4) is there specifically to cover individuals not signed in but conducting fitness on their own time.  "Not signed in" is irrelevant (at least, irrelevant under 210.72(4)).

 

[Aerobicrunner]

However, had Bloggins properly indicated on his exercise prescription form that he participated in inter-base tiddly-winks, his tiddly-winks injury would have been covered.  In my unit, at least, those forms are completed annually as part fo the DAG, and all soldiers are encouraged to include all exercise and physical activites they participate in.

Of course, were I Bloggins in this case, I would submit a grievance - there's a degree of subjectivity in this, together with an overly legalistic approach by DCSM.  CBI 210.72(4) is there specifically to cover individuals not signed in but conducting fitness on their own time.  "Not signed in" is irrelevant (at least, irrelevant under 210.72(4)).

Oh right, I  neglected to mention that he had both the memo from the unit and his LFCPFS form annotated that he could do the sport.  These were provided with the memo from the Base Commander saying that these are the authorized sports under his command as part of the RFC request. However, as I mentioned, despite several discussions between DCSM (director and others), next level HQ, JPSU rep and others, his compensation was still denied stating that team sports not part of a unit signed in activity are not considered part of the overall authorized and prescribed fitness plan.  So anyway, it is up to him what he does next and will see if anything changes in the future or if anyone else gets into the same situation.

 

[PuckChaser]

Oh right, I  neglected to mention that he had both the memo from the unit and his LFCPFS form annotated that he could do the sport.  These were provided with the memo from the Base Commander saying that these are the authorized sports under his command as part of the RFC request. However, as I mentioned, despite several discussions between DCSM (director and others), next level HQ, JPSU rep and others, his compensation was still denied stating that team sports not part of a unit signed in activity are not considered part of the overall authorized and prescribed fitness plan.  So anyway, it is up to him what he does next and will see if anything changes in the future or if anyone else gets into the same situation.

Wonder how that denial of compensation would look on the front page of the Ottawa Citizen. "Soldier denied compensation for injury during authorized sports".

 

[dapaterson]

Oh right, I  neglected to mention that he had both the memo from the unit and his LFCPFS form annotated that he could do the sport.  These were provided with the memo from the Base Commander saying that these are the authorized sports under his command as part of the RFC request. However, as I mentioned, despite several discussions between DCSM (director and others), next level HQ, JPSU rep and others, his compensation was still denied stating that team sports not part of a unit signed in activity are not considered part of the overall authorized and prescribed fitness plan.  So anyway, it is up to him what he does next and will see if anything changes in the future or if anyone else gets into the same situation.

That is alarming.  There has been clear direction from the CDS and many levels below on the importance of fitness; this individual acted on them and followed the directions given to report on what he does to say in shape, and now is being refused coverage?

 

[Pusser]

The case above is what I would consider to be a very grey area, which we as an organization have not yet fully come to grips with.  Notwithstanding CDS direction, I'm think the law of unintended consequences is very much at play here.  I wonder how it would be looked at if the individual concerned were playing in a civilian league (with all appropriate paperwork completed and fully explaining that this activity was part of his exercise prescription)?

On a more generic note, intramural sports teams are "clubs" within the PSP structure and as such are bound by normal club rules which restrict the number of reservists (as well as retirees and/or DND civilians) that can participate.  It's a percentage of the total membership.  Some activities are obviously restricted in the total number of members they can have (e.g. a hockey program will have a maximum number of participants because the amount of ice time available is finite).  The rules also state that regular force members have first crack at the available spots.  If the program can be filled with regular force members, then no reservists can participate.  I give the example of the CFSU(O) hockey leagues.  They are currently restricted to regular force and full time reservists, but there are also waiting lists to get in from the regular and full-time reserve communities.  If the priority applicants have to sit on a waiting list, there is simply no room for the Class A crowd. 

In general, Class A personnel are not prohibited from participating in base clubs and intramural sports activities, but in some cases, they are too far down the pecking order to be allowed to participate simply because the folks higher up in the order fill all the spots.  I suspect that this is what has happened here.