How do you "break off" a military for an independent Scotland?

[rmc_wannabe]

Where do you think the dress code for Catholic School Girls came from?....huh....huh....

Big burly Scottish warriors? ;D

 

[daftandbarmy]

Aww Hell, I'll go. As long as you can qualify with Scottish ancestry. iper:

You'd be more at home in a Scottish regiment if you had Caribbean ancestry, it would seem:


The Defence Secretary confirms in an interview with The Daily Telegraph that some entire infantry and armoured units will be scrapped as the Army is restructured.

The units most vulnerable are those that fail to recruit their full complement of soldiers in Britain and make up their numbers from Fiji, the Caribbean and elsewhere.

Throughout the infantry, about one in 10 soldiers is from outside Britain, though some units have a larger foreign contingent than others.

Mr Hammond’s words will be seen as a warning to battalions with Scottish roots, which have struggled to hit recruiting targets at home and have recruited heavily from overseas.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9250905/Regiments-with-Commonwealth-recruits-face-being-wiped-out.html

 

[The Bread Guy]

Bumped with a new Thin Pinstriped Line blog post, including a link to a new UK MoD analysis with the unsurprising info-machine headline, "Scotland benefits from every single pound spent on UK defence, a new Scotland analysis programme paper makes clear." - this, from the blog post:

....  The problem facing a newly independent Scotland seems to be that the UK military assets are simply not appropriate for what will be a low level defence force in a relatively small country. Stripped of the recruiting, support and logistical contracts and pipeline that have sustained the equipment, one can imagine a future Scottish Defence Force burdened down with legacy equipment which requires expensive training and support to run properly, and which is too expensive to meet what will be a very small budget.

One could almost argue that rather than take much UK military equipment, it would be more sensible for Scotland to instead take a large cash payment and procure a low level defence force (with UK forces providing sovereignty assurance in the interim) which better meets their specific needs. So, procurement of low level OPVs, simple vehicles and so on – in other words start from scratch with something that is feasible, and not take on equipment that is designed for a very different role ....

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I wonder if the "New Scotland" will copyright kilts and bagpipes, requiring a payment of fees for every public appearance as way to finance the new dream?

 

[George Wallace]

I wonder if the "New Scotland" will copyright kilts and bagpipes, requiring a payment of fees for every public appearance as way to finance the new dream?

That may raise the hackles of the Clan Chiefs.  Don't start pinching from a Scotsman's purse.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

One of those "Clan chiefs" was my Pension Adviser, I would happily burn him at the stake if ever meet him in person, useless tw*t.

 

[George Wallace]

Yes; but I am sure that he would not like the State grabbing royalties on his clan tartans.  Moneys I am sure he would prefer to have safely stashed in his own sporran.

 

[The Bread Guy]

What the Scots say they see as the future of an independent Scottish military according to an excerpt from their latest white paper shared via this blog:

.... Defence capabilities at the point of independence

Maritime forces

One naval squadron to secure Scotland’s maritime interests and Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) and contribute to joint capability with partners in Scotland’s geographical neighbourhood, consisting of:

    two frigates from the Royal Navy’s current fleet
    a command platform for naval operations and development of specialist marine capabilities (from the Royal Navy’s current fleet, following adaptation)
    four mine counter measure vessels from the Royal Navy’s current fleet
    two offshore patrol vessels (OPVs) to provide security for the 200 nautical mile Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ). However, as the Royal Navy only has four OPVs currently[263], a longer lead time for procurement might be necessary
    four to six patrol boats from the Royal Navy’s current fleet, capable of operating in coastal waters, providing fleet protection and also contributing to securing borders
    auxiliary support ships (providing support to vessels on operations), which could be secured on a shared basis initially with the rest of the UK

These arrangements will require around 2,000 regular and at least 200 reserve personnel.

Land forces

An army HQ function and an all-arms brigade, with three infantry/marine units, equipped initially from a negotiated share of current UK assets, and supported by:

    a deployable Brigade HQ
    two light armoured reconnaissance units
    two light artillery units
    one engineer unit deploying a range of equipment for bridging, mine clearance and engineering functions
    one aviation unit operating six helicopters for reconnaissance and liaison
    two communication units
    one transport unit
    one logistics unit
    one medical unit

Special forces, explosives and ordnance disposal teams will bring the total to around 3,500 regular and at least 1,200 reserve personnel.

Air forces

Key elements of air forces in place at independence, equipped initially from a negotiated share of current UK assets, will secure core tasks, principally the ability to police Scotland’s airspace, within NATO.

    an Air Force HQ function (with staff embedded within NATO structures)
    Scotland will remain part of NATO‘s integrated Air Command and Control (AC2) system, initially through agreement with allies to maintain the current arrangements while Scotland establishes and develops our own AC2 personnel and facility within Scotland within five years of independence
    a Quick Reaction Alert (QRA) squadron incorporating a minimum of 12 Typhoon jets based at Lossiemouth
    a tactical air transport squadron, including around six Hercules C130J aircraft, and a helicopter squadron
    flight training through joint arrangements with allies

In total this would require around 2,000 regular personnel and around 300 reserve personnel.

Civilian support

In addition to military capability following a vote for independence, the Scottish Government will establish core government capacity for defence functions, such as strategic planning, oversight and policy functions for defence and security. Given the importance of ongoing shared security interests between Scotland and the rest of the UK, we will ensure a partnership approach during the period of transition to independence.

Following a vote for independence, priorities for the Scottish Government capacity dealing with defence will be planning for the strategic security review to be carried out by the first Scottish Parliament following independence, based on the most recent UK National Risk Assessment and input from Scottish experts and academic institutions.

Defence capabilities five years after independence

Further development of Scotland’s defence and security capabilities will be decided following the strategic review of security undertaken by the first elected Parliament and government of an independent Scotland.

However the current Scottish Government believes that the following elements should be prioritised for delivery as early as possible in the first five years following independence, building on the forces in place at independence:

Maritime forces

A second naval squadron to contribute to NATO and other operations outside home waters, incorporating the naval command platform, and a further two frigates with tanker and support ship capacity.

Overall the model would involve around 2,400 regular and at least 270 reserve personnel. While most of the personnel would be required by the five year point, this model envisages increases continuing through the first ten years following independence (due to procurement of new Scottish naval vessels).

Land forces

Developing the All Arms brigade’s capabilities to include:

    increases to strengths of the three infantry battalions (to a combined total of 1,500 regular and 300 reserve personnel)
    upgrading of the light armour, artillery, aviation and medical units
    increasing the strength of the special forces unit
    increasing the number of personnel deployed to conflict prevention, disarmament and defence diplomacy

Overall, this would entail an increase in numbers, over the years following independence, to around 4,700 regular and at least 1,110 reserve personnel.

Air forces

Increasing the fast jet fleet of Typhoons potentially up to 16 aircraft which would enable Scotland to contribute to alliance operations overseas.

Increasing the Scottish contribution to capabilities for air defence, as part of an integrated system within NATO.

At present, the UK has no maritime patrol aircraft. During this period options for procurement will be taken forward and airborne maritime patrol capability delivered. A detailed specification of requirement will be developed as a priority and final numbers of aircraft required will depend on this. However, the numbers maintained by comparable nations suggests a potential fleet of four.

Development across all of those areas would entail an overall increase in numbers to around 3,250 regular and at least 300 reserve personnel.

Defence capabilities after 10 years

This Government plans that, 10 years after independence, Scotland will have a total of 15,000 regular and 5,000 reserve personnel across land, air and maritime forces ....

More details at the Scottish government's web page on international relations & the independent military here.

 

[CougarKing]

Speaking of the document that milnews posted above...

Keeping the queen? So does that mean that their navy and air force will also have to put "Royal" in their official titles as well?

Independent Scotland would keep queen, pound and TV shows but create own military

Scotland will keep the United Kingdom's queen and currency but will create its own defense force and passports if the country votes for independence next year, the nationalist government pledged Tuesday.

A 600-page blueprint setting out detailed terms for Scotland’s possible separation from Britain was published by First Minister Alex Salmond.

It promises no overall tax increases and says the scrapping of nuclear defenses would help pay for policy pledges on welfare payments and public education.

The “Scotland’s Future” document [PDF link] aims to convince Scots they should vote to end a 306-year union with England in a referendum taking place on September 18, 2014.

More at...

NBC news

 

[Hudyma]

Who else thinks this might end like a bad divorce?

 

[cupper]

It will end just fine when I reassert my family's ancient claim to the Scottish Throne.

 

[AJFitzpatrick]

You'll have to get in line behind the Jacobite pretender (discounting that a Jacobite claim has not been made since 1807.... this is an opportunity). Time to remove extraneous glassware.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Apparently my Mom's lineage (McWilliams) made an unsuccessful run for it as well. Shortly there after a bunch quickly moved to Ireland and ended up entangled in the household of Gráinne's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%A1inne_N%C3%AD_Mh%C3%A1ille

 

[Remius]

Who else thinks this might end like a bad divorce?

We'll see.  If it even happens.

An independant Scotland might find that what it thinks it will get in comparison to what they will actually get to be a bit wider than they think.

There will be lessons to be learned that will most certainly apply here should the idea to seperate become more serious.

 

[daftandbarmy]

We'll see.  If it even happens.

An independant Scotland might find that what it thinks it will get in comparison to what they will actually get to be a bit wider than they think.

There will be lessons to be learned that will most certainly apply here should the idea to seperate become more serious.

They can't rely on any independent Scotland being raised on an incoming tide of North Sea oil cash, which will likely cause them to fail:


There are mounting concerns in the North Sea oil and gas industry that the Scottish independence debate, skill shortages and soaring inflation are undermining future investment and production.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/nov/28/north-sea-oil-gas-survey?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

 

[OldSolduer]

It will end just fine when I reassert my family's ancient claim to the Scottish Throne.

I want it too, as long as it costs nothing.


I will settle for a nice title and no responsibility....


Laird of Dohaney sounds nice.