Help with Tracing a WW1 CEF Unit Please

[cesjak]

I am researching a relation who served with the CEF in WW1. I have found his attestation papers on the official site, but cannot see what regiment he served with. His service No. was 1689. This relates to a block of numbers reserved for the 33rd btn or possibly the 2nd Div Train. I understand that many battalions where broken up or amalgamated with other units overseas. Would anyone know what happened to the 33rd Btn. Below are the details on my relation:

http://www.collectionscanada.ca
KANE , WILLIAM VINCENT 
Regimental number:  1689 
Reference:  RG 150, Accession 1992-93/166, Box 5000 - 64

I would be very grateful for help with tracing the unit that he served in. I have attached the first page of his papers.

Thanks in anticipation

 

[AJFitzpatrick]

Sorry I didn't see this early.
A good place to search/post a querry is the CEF study group http://www.cefresearch.com/
In my notes I have the 36th Bn Absorbing the 33rd Bn August 2nd 1916

Unfortunately I don't have much on the 36th other than it disbanding on Jan 2, 1917
- Edit:  The CEF study group has the 36th Bn being absorbed by the 3rd Reserve Bn
I'm guessing you don't have the full set of the service record. If not it is well worth ordering it from the Archives (Details at www.collectionscanada.ca) since this wiil have all the records of unit transfers etc.

Incidentally, the 33rd Bn is perpetuated by the 4th Bn of The Royal Canadian Regiment who just had their regimental birthday yesterday

 

[Michael OLeary]

Incidentally, the 33rd Bn is perpetuated by the 4th Bn of The Royal Canadian Regiment who just had their regimental birthday yesterday

Actually, the 33rd Canadian Infantry Battalion is perpetuated by The Royal Canadian Regiment (not solely by the 4th Battalion).

The Royal Canadian Regiment - Perpetuated Units

The Royal Canadian Regiment - Perpetuation of Canadian Expeditionary Force Units

 

[Michael OLeary]

cesjak,

have you sent away to the Archives for Kane's full service record?  His service record will identify all of the units he transferred to and help you retrace his steps in a general sense.  You can then focus on researching the actions of each of those units for the period he was with them.

How to consult a file on-site or order a copy of the complete file.

After you have the units and dates identified, one excellent place to start is the unit War Diaries. - http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/archivianet/020152_e.html

 

[AJFitzpatrick]

Actually, the 33rd Canadian Infantry Battalion is perpetuated by The Royal Canadian Regiment (not solely by the 4th Battalion).

The Royal Canadian Regiment - Perpetuated Units

The Royal Canadian Regiment - Perpetuation of Canadian Expeditionary Force Units

Sorry to continue to push this off-topic and subject to correction, when perpetuation weren't originally designated weren't perpetutations assigned to individual battalions in the proposed multi-battalions regiments (albeit most of 2nd battalions were paper only). The 33rd CEF Bn was originally perpetuated by the Canadian Fusiliers (City of London Regt) which has become, through a number of steps, 4RCR. I guess the question is are perpetuation treated in the same manner as battle honours where honours are collective for the regiment rather then individual battalions or are perpetuation battalion level designations?.

Now it is unclear to me if at the time of the assignment of the perpetutations The Royal Canadian Regiment had more then 1 battalion real or paper, if it was only 1 then all 3 regular battalions  prepetuation the CEF battalions since they have a clear common origin but I'm not sure about the 33rd Bn since 4RCR has a distinctive different origin.

Was this sort of thing ever officially clarified ?

 

[Michael OLeary]

Perpetuation is by regiments..  The simplest evidence of this is that the 4th Battalion does not have a different set of battle honours.  All of The Royal Canadian Regiment perpetuates each of the perpetuated battalions of the CEF.

 

[Bill Smy]

As I understand it, the rules for perpetuation were different than those set down for the award of battle honours.

A committee was set up in 1919 to devise a scheme to preserve the "traditions and identity, the several units (especially the Infantry Battalions) of the Canadian Expeditionary Force, which served at the front...".

The scheme which ervolved was to have each battalion of the CEF "perpetuated" by a post-war militia regiment which had provided the largest number of men on its mobilization.

The scheme of perpetuation was expanded to include units which were broken up and did not reach the front.

The perpetuations were published in 1920 with the reorganization of the post-war militia.

It was decided that the battle honours won by a CEF battalion should be carried by units in the newly re-organized militia. When a pre-war militia regiment contributed 200 or more men to a fighting CEF battalion on organization, the post-war militia regiment was entitled to carry the honours won by that CEF battalion during the first seven months in action. The militia regiment need not to perpetuate the CEF battalion.

The post-war militia unit also was entitled to battle honours of CEF battalions which they perpetuated if the CEF battalion had 250 men in a battle area. If the 250 men were in units which attacked or were attacked the perpetuating militia unit carried the battle honour on its regimental colour.

When the post-war militia unit perpetuated more than one CEF battalion, the men in both CEF battalion were added together to arrive at the necessary 250.

The battle honours were published in 1929 and 1930.

Michael is really the expert in this, and I bow to any fault he might find in this simplification.