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Hamas invaded Israel 2023

  • Thread starter Thread starter McG
  • Start date Start date
Brad Sallows said:
If you want a comparison, the comparison is the US after 9/11.

The US decided to take the war to Iraq, based chiefly on the risk that Iraq was trying to develop WMD and that some of the WMD might:
  • be transferred to terrorists (on purpose)
  • be stolen by terrorists (accidentally)
  • be transferred to terrorists and made to look like they were stolen (accidentally-on-purpose)

What were the allowable boundaries of conducting that war?

And my perennial favourites: who advocated that war and prosecuted it, where are those people now, where do they stand in US politics, and who is listening to them and aligned with them?
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I see where you're going, but there is a massive difference, the US was never at risk of being overrun/destroyed because of Al-Qaeda or the Taliban.
 
Furniture said:
I see where you're going, but there is a massive difference, the US was never at risk of being overrun/destroyed because of Al-Qaeda or the Taliban.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Israel is surrounded by people and countries who don't want that land, they want to exterminate their religion from the face of the earth.

A loss for Israel equals what would be genocide of their peoples and that's simply not an option for them.
 
Remius said:
One solid point I saw, was that if Israel were to drop all their guns right now, they’d be slaughtered but if Hamas dropped all their guns there would be peace.
Click to expand...

“If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel,”

-Prime Minister Golda Meir
 
In all the videos I've seen, Hamas has the overwhelming support of Palestinians. It's not a few bad apples.

Palestinian bystanders are pushing each other out of the way to kick, stab, smash, and spit on Jewish bodies. The hate is palpable.

Immediately after the attacks started, Palestinians and Palestinian supporters across the world took to the street to "support" Palestine. I think celebration is a more apt word in many (even most) cases.

Palestinians aren't inclined to police themselves of Hamas so it looks like the IDF will.
 
Jarnhamar said:
In all the videos I've seen, Hamas has the overwhelming support of Palestinians. It's not a few bad apples.

Palestinian bystanders are pushing each other out of the way to kick, stab, smash, and spit on Jewish bodies. The hate is palpable.

Immediately after the attacks started, Palestinians and Palestinian supporters across the world took to the street to "support" Palestine. I think celebration is a more apt word in many (even most) cases.

Palestinians aren't inclined to police themselves of Hamas so it looks like the IDF will.
Click to expand...
Over whelming... I think not. Majority of protesters, IMHO, are sitting on their collective butts within the secure envelope of another country. If you feel so strongly, hop a flight and report in. Self policing might work IF given a chance. Remove the hairy scary types and allow tha average guy on the street a chance to voice his opinion. Included in hairy scary are the various religious factions. militias and street gangs.
 
Jarnhamar said:
In all the videos I've seen, Hamas has the overwhelming support of Palestinians. It's not a few bad apples.

Palestinian bystanders are pushing each other out of the way to kick, stab, smash, and spit on Jewish bodies. The hate is palpable.

Immediately after the attacks started, Palestinians and Palestinian supporters across the world took to the street to "support" Palestine. I think celebration is a more apt word in many (even most) cases.

Palestinians aren't inclined to police themselves of Hamas so it looks like the IDF will.
Click to expand...

I think there is two sides to this.

First, anyone who openly opposes Hamas inside Palestine will be dealt with harshly.

Second is Indoctrination, we all see video's of children shouting death to Israel or something similar. I can't find it now but I remember a video that circulated a couple years ago showing elementary children for being interviewed about what they want to be when they grow up, and most of it was focused on killing jews or killing westerners.

So Hamas has essentially ensured their long term hold of power.

It really is the Soviet playbook. Just with added religious dogma.

The uncomfortable truth that the world won't accept, is peace is not an option without breaking the will of one side. To break that will you are going to have to do something that makes people uncomfortable.

Hamas has shown they are willing to break any rule imaginable. They won't negotiate in good faith, and they don't care about civilian lives on either side.
 
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ueo said:
Majority of protesters, IMHO, are sitting on their collective butts within the secure envelope of another country.
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There certainly isn't anyone protesting Hamas's behavior from inside Gaza. Like "Hey stop firing rockets from our civilian neighborhoods". Or "Hey Hamas stop indoctrinating our children". [2007, 2013 , 2023 ]

ueo said:
If you feel so strongly, hop a flight and report in.
Click to expand...
What's your thought process with throwing out this suggestion? Do you NOT feel strongly about babies being shot in their car seats and set on fire? Or men women and children being stolen from their homes and brought to Gaza?

ueo said:
Self policing might work IF given a chance. Remove the hairy scary types and allow tha average guy on the street a chance to voice his opinion. Included in hairy scary are the various religious factions. militias and street gangs.
Click to expand...
This isn't a case of 1% baddies and 99% innocent bystanders being held at gunpoint. You can see the support for Hamas yourself in videos. There are plenty of videos of unarmed Palestinians challenging IDF soldiers or throwing rocks at them. Here is a lovely video of a father pushing his 6 or 7-year-old son to challenge IDF soldiers including telling his kid to pick up rocks and throw them at the soldiers.

If they can do this to IDF then they can do it to Hamas.
 
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gryphonv said:
I think there is two sides to this.
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Or even a bunch of them.

Sydney government apologizes for pro-Palestine protest that had ‘gas the Jews’ chants​

This can very easily be Toronto, Ottawa, Vancouver, or Montreal.

Vancouver Nakba Day Rally Sees Participants Openly Incite Terrorism Against Israel May 2023
“We are launching a campaign to erase that shame list, and to say to the Canadian government: You can issue any law you want, we are going to support our resistance no matter what Trudeau says. We don’t care about your laws. We don’t care about the laws you issue against our resistance. We are going to continue our support for not just the Palestinian resistance, but the Lebanese resistance as well.”
Click to expand...
 
Furniture said:
I see where you're going, but there is a massive difference, the US was never at risk of being overrun/destroyed because of Al-Qaeda or the Taliban.
Click to expand...
Israel isn't at risk of being overrun/destroyed. Not unless someone brings nuclear weapons to the party.
 
ueo said:
Over whelming... I think not. Majority of protesters, IMHO, are sitting on their collective butts within the secure envelope of another country. If you feel so strongly, hop a flight and report in. Self policing might work IF given a chance. Remove the hairy scary types and allow tha average guy on the street a chance to voice his opinion. Included in hairy scary are the various religious factions. militias and street gangs.
Click to expand...

gryphonv said:
I think there is two sides to this.

First, anyone who openly opposes Hamas inside Palestine will be dealt with harshly.

Second is Indoctrination, we all see video's of children shouting death to Israel or something similar. I can't find it now but I remember a video that circulated a couple years ago showing elementary children for being interviewed about what they want to be when they grow up, and most of it was focused on killing jews or killing westerners.

So Hamas has essentially ensured their long term hold of power.

It really is the Soviet playbook. Just with added religious dogma.

The uncomfortable truth that the world won't accept, is peace is not an option without breaking the will of one side. To break that will you are going to have to do something that makes people uncomfortable.

Hamas has shown they are willing to break any rule imaginable. They won't negotiate in good faith, and they don't care about civilian lives on either side.
Click to expand...

Jarnhamar said:
There certainly isn't anyone protesting Hamas's behavior from inside Gaza. Like "Hey stop firing rockets from our civilian neighborhoods". Or "Hey Hamas stop indoctrinating our children". [2007, 2013 , 2023 ]


What's your thought process with throwing out this suggestion? Do you NOT feel strongly about babies being shot in their car seats and set on fire? Or men women and children being stolen from their homes and brought to Gaza?


This isn't a case of 1% baddies and 99% innocent bystanders being held at gunpoint. You can see the support for Hamas yourself in videos. There are plenty of videos of unarmed Palestinians challenging IDF soldiers or throwing rocks at them. Here is a lovely video of a father pushing his 6 or 7-year-old son to challenge IDF soldiers including telling his kid to pick up rocks and throw them at the soldiers.

If they can do this to IDF then they can do it to Hamas.
Click to expand...

I think ueo and gryphonv are on to something.

The Chinese Cultural Revolution, Iranians stoning youngsters, lynch mobs. Mobs in general.

Driven by a mixture of fear and rage and desire not to stand out and become the next target.
 
My experience is dated and is post-blast based. But that blast shape seems like it going out from an enclosed space and liquid based. But that’s a wild guess- it’s been over a decade since I ve looked at that stuff. Just making convo.
 
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