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It's a matter of perspective.
Hamas invaded Israel 2023
- Thread starter McG
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I saw somewhere online that there were a couple of HVT's there. Versus how many civilians?
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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Yup. Its right in the tweet you posted.
I'm not sure how they can tell Israel is using prohibited weapons by the size of the flame. Probably some formula out there.
I couldn't tell you. I'd guess some kind of expensive precision munition so they can try to hit Hamas fighters that are hiding between refugees.
It's possible they want to save their budget for anti air missiles to shoot down Hamas rockets. Once again civilians pay the price of Hamas' folly.
Speaking of Hamas here's an article and video about Hamas tying people up and shooting them.
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That really worries me.
All I see from him is a terrorist fan boy, who cannot even stick to facts. So his messages are just viewed as spam to me, as I don’t care enough to dig through his garbage to find the occasional truth.
OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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I've put fanboi on ignore and will lift that occasionally to see what our special boi has to say. He - or she- is not worth the time and effort to respond to.
Let him keep chirping though.....I am sure someone is watching.
Quirky
Army.ca Veteran
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I’m not one bit surprised you’d be the one defending a terrorist sympathizer, then again you’re so far left you’re in oncoming traffic.
abduly85
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Guys guys, let's all take a deep breath, try not to make this personal and take it easy with the name calling. We're all Canadians here (and Americans I guess) and we're in the same boat whether we like it or not.
We're getting way off topic and Bruce already has me in the crosshairs, lol.
Let's rise over this, stay objective and factual in our discussions (and back it up with references).
We're getting way off topic and Bruce already has me in the crosshairs, lol.
Let's rise over this, stay objective and factual in our discussions (and back it up with references).
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Hi. I'm not sure if you're aware but you're not in charge here. There is a moderator staff around to keep things on the rails, and we don't want or need your help. You've thrown around a metric ton of hyperbolical statements and are not without fault.
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abduly85
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Got it. My apologies for stepping over.
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
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Collateral damage and casualties resulting from the siting of legitimate military targets is the fault of the people siting legitimate military targets there. If it's common knowledge that a war aim is approximately the extinction of the political and military leadership of Hamas, for f*ck's sake keep the political and military leadership of Hamas away from everyone and everything else.
In every war there's eventually going to be a dead child video, particularly if fighting occurs in populated areas, and regardless how righteous the cause and conduct is. Nations - including supporters on the sidelines - need to decide in advance what they're going to do when it happens, and whether they're going to allow their policy and aims to be deflected when the tragedy they reasonably knew was inevitable finally has a human face. If they can't handle it and won't prepare for it or think they can just weasel their way along for as long as deaths are just statistics, they ought to just suck up whatever outrage occurred and say: "Thank you sir. May we have another?"
In every war there's eventually going to be a dead child video, particularly if fighting occurs in populated areas, and regardless how righteous the cause and conduct is. Nations - including supporters on the sidelines - need to decide in advance what they're going to do when it happens, and whether they're going to allow their policy and aims to be deflected when the tragedy they reasonably knew was inevitable finally has a human face. If they can't handle it and won't prepare for it or think they can just weasel their way along for as long as deaths are just statistics, they ought to just suck up whatever outrage occurred and say: "Thank you sir. May we have another?"
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Wow.
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This is so hilarious I had to screen cap it and show my friends. Thanks for the morning entertainment!
abduly85
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Oh, the Israeli PM is now saying it was just a mistake, ah well, carry on.
In other developments, an Egyptian soldier was killed by Israel in an exchange of fire at the Rafah crossing today. Let's see where this will lead things to:
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Has anyone from Gaza ever mentioned that Oct 7th was a tragic mistake??
Quirky
Army.ca Veteran
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Hamas could just surrender and release the hostages, but I guess not. Carry on.
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
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"Netanyahu says the air strike in Rafah on Sunday was "a tragic mistake" and adds that it will be investigated"
Huh. Would be a pretty neat trick to know the outcome ("tragic mistake") before the investigation is started.
Huh. Would be a pretty neat trick to know the outcome ("tragic mistake") before the investigation is started.
It won't lead anywhere. Egypt has no interest in raising tensions with Israel.
A small - and probably accidental - clash between border guards is nothing in the context of Arab-Israeli conflict.
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I’d like to interject that you can know some information before an investigation. The investigation finds out the why/how the event occurred - the what is usually already somewhat visible, and it’s generally what starts an investigation…
abduly85
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Yup. During Inherent Resolve in Iraq/Syria, a lot of CIVCAS incidents were self reported by the involved units based on strike video. Turnaround time on intial “oh shit” impressions can be very quick.
A thorough investigation can and sometimes does arrive at a greater understanding of just what happened leading up to an incident, but the bare fact that something bad happened can be known with considerable confidence very quickly.
Big problem with how incomplete your reasoning is here. You’re looking at the military legitimacy of a target and treating it as a be-all end-all, but that’s far from the whole equation. A target can be impeccably valid, yet the means used to strike it can be badly - even criminally - disproportionate or imprecise. Your simplistic logic here would not distinguish between dropping on a community centre with hundreds of refugees to kill one gunman, or killing a dozen high value enemy leaders in a command post where you incidentally kill a civilian janitor. In reality, proportionality and discrimination always have to be considered because they’re always in play. You very much come across as being in the “Israel can do no possible wrong” camp, and it’s clouding how rigorously you apply logic.
Yes, Hamas started this latest round of violence with the atrocities of October 7th. Israel has a right to exist and to defend itself. However, Israel is still responsible for how it chooses to strike one particular target or another.
Yes, in war you can kill civilians, accidentally or even deliberately in anticipated collateral damage. In certain circumstances you could conceivably justify knowingly (in advance) killing children if the military target is critical enough and you’re still being reasonably proportionate and discriminate. But it’s not a carte blanche.
Israel has, generally, a very powerful and effective intelligence apparatus. They’re pinpointing valid targets. How they prosecute those targets, however, (or if they hit a particular target at a particular time at all) remains a choice Israel must make in each instance and they are separately accountable for each decision. If Israel decides to bomb an IDP camp (where people were specifically told by Israel to evacuate to) in order to take out a couple Hamas leaders, Israel has to wear that choice.
I hope Israel has some idea of a long term diplomatic and political game plan- and I’m talking on a generational scale. They’re going to need it, because the choices they’re making as going to prove increasingly alienating and isolating.
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