HA bonus - am I being ripped off?

[PiperDown]

I am heading to the sandbox ( 6 month tour) in about a month and I have a question that needs clarification from the switched on admin types here.

I recently had my meeting with the deployed ops cell at my unit and we went over my pay etc for my tour.
I inquired why at the bottom of my allowance written in pen was the note - Level 1A - HA Bonus 0%.

I told the clerk (actually the clerk I was seeing in the Sgt IC of the deployment cell) that I should be level 1B because I did 6 months in bosnia in 2003 and just did 2 months in KAF - Nov and Dec of 08.
She checked and informed me that I had only 4 points total.  2 from my TAV in afghanistan and 2 from my tour in Bosnia.
I then told her I was in Bosnia for 6 months.. she checked my records and confirmed I was there - 01 Apr 03 to 29 Sept 03.  Then she told me that HA bonus points are only calculated when we draw OP FSP.
Apparently for April till July I was collecting FSP and in August it was changed to OP FSP.

now... the really interesting thing, is that during my TAV in 2008 I collected HA Bonus as the clerk in KAF said I was level 1B. (I told the sgt clerk this, and she said that I should just keep my mouth closed about that before someone decides to collect the money back)

I said there must be some mistake because why would only 2 out of my 6 months in Bosnia be credited.
She said the "system changed" in July 2003 and I was not entitled before that.
I then said, "well, then how can anyone with time in Bosnia before 2003 count?, and what about the Golan, or Cyprus"  She said every person was different and points are calculated correctly.. and, if I had a problem, I should do a little research to prove it.

Am I on glue? or is the Deployed Ops cell ?

 

[George Wallace]

.............  She said every person was different and points are calculated correctly.. and, if I had a problem, I should do a little research to prove it.

You know there seems to be an epidemic of this going around.

First - smack your clerks that are not taking care of you.

I won't even get into the Sgt and PO RMS Clerks who caused all the kerfuffle about Storage last winter.

 

[CountDC]

She is correct - you have the following points based on what you have provided (without the actual dates for Nov and Dec 08, I used 1 Nov to 24 Dec 08):

OPS FSP - 8 points - level 1B

FSP - 4 points - level 1

HAB - 4 points - level 0

The actual switch over date is the 23 Jul 03 - OPS FSP was started and counts towards HAB.  A good source is the CBI's - 10.3.06.

You may want to check on the 1A level - that looks like it is for OPS FSP level which should be 1B.

 

[PiperDown]

She is correct - you have the following points based on what you have provided (without the actual dates for Nov and Dec 08, I used 1 Nov to 24 Dec 08):

OPS FSP - 8 points - level 1B

FSP - 4 points - level 1

HAB - 4 points - level 0

The actual switch over date is the 23 Jul 03 - OPS FSP was started and counts towards HAB.  A good source is the CBI's - 10.3.06.

You may want to check on the 1A level - that looks like it is for OPS FSP level which should be 1B.

I am having trouble understanding why Bosnia time after 23 July 03 counts towards HA Bonus and not the time before. During my entire time on ROTO 12 we collected hardship allowance.. I apparently "assumed" that HA bonus was a bonus awarded to those with previous hardship allowance tours.
So, what you are saying is those people who did 2 or 3 tours in the early days of Bosnia do not get any HA Bonus, but those in the "dying days" of roto 13 and beyond do?
Weird.... Because I know personally a bunch of people currently on their first tour in Afghanistan who are in getting level 1C or 1D of HA Bonus becuase of multiple UN/Nato tours (all before this magic date of 23 july 03)

according to below, HA Bonus points are calculated one point per month on OPERATIONS.. I fail to see how Bosnia was not an operation.. (or only became one on 23 July 2003)


10.3.06 – HARDSHIP ALLOWANCE BONUS

10.3.06(1) (Intent) The intent of the Hardship Allowance Bonus (HA Bonus) is to compensate a member for repeated deployments.

10.3.06(2) (Monthly rate) The rate of HA Bonus varies according to the member's length of service on operations. HA Bonus payable to a member is the monthly amount calculated as a percentage of the authorized HA level under CBI 10.3.05 - Hardship Allowance.

10.3.06(3) (Levels) The HA Bonus level to which a member is entitled is based on points accumulated for service on operations as follows:
HARDSHIP ALLOWANCE BONUS

points 0 - 6 = 0%
points 6 - 12 = 20%
points 18 - 24 = 30%
etc
etc

HARDSHIP ALLOWANCE BONUS


10.3.06(4) (Point accumulation) Points are accumulated for service on operations at the rate of one point per calendar month of service.

10.3.06(5) (Calculation of points) For the purpose of calculating points under this instruction, a member is considered to have completed a month of service on operation where there is an entitlement to ten compensation days of HA Bonus in a calendar month, except that during a cross-posting to another deployment a member cannot accumulate credits on the basis of two periods of ten compensation days within the same calendar month.

 

[CountDC]

I am having trouble understanding why Bosnia time after 23 July 03 counts towards HA Bonus and not the time before. During my entire time on ROTO 12 we collected hardship allowance.. I apparently "assumed" that HA bonus was a bonus awarded to those with previous hardship allowance tours.
So, what you are saying is those people who did 2 or 3 tours in the early days of Bosnia do not get any HA Bonus, but those in the "dying days" of roto 13 and beyond do?
Weird.... Because I know personally a bunch of people currently on their first tour in Afghanistan who are in getting level 1C or 1D of HA Bonus becuase of multiple UN/Nato tours (all before this magic date of 23 july 03)

according to below, HA Bonus points are calculated one point per month on OPERATIONS.. I fail to see how Bosnia was not an operation.. (or only became one on 23 July 2003)

It might take some digging to find this one but I believe that Bosnia originally was not classified as an Operation and you were paid FSP. After 23 Jul 03 it was changed over and classified as an Operation and you were changed over to OP FSP.  The other members you are referring to were most likely on Operation - maybe small OPS?  We have a lot of them that most people are not even aware of and most UN/NATO tours are part of one. I belief there may be somewhere around 17 currently on the go.

You could check out the CFSU(O) FSS Ops site for info and contacts for help  - this is what they deal with all the time so are fully up to date on the policy. I have not dealt directly with it for 2 years so there may be something I am not aware of or have forgotten.

http://cfsuo.mil.ca/fss/intro_e.asp

 

[George Wallace]

Bosnia was an Operation, right from the Start.  In fact there were two or three Operations occuring in that Region at that time.  In 1995 OP Cavalier was where CANBAT 2 fell under.  There was also OP Harmony. 

 

[CountDC]

Hmmm - trying to reach someone still doing OPS to check on this.  As it was an ops I wonder why they paid FSP instead of OPS FSP? I originally did not enter it in the calculator as an op as FSP was paid instead of OP FSP which came in back in 2000.  Entering it as an OP changes the HAB to 8 points, level 1.

Also remember now what the 23 Jul 03 date was for - it has to do with the calculation of FSP and OP FSP points. Up to the 22 Jul 03 they were cross counted. Effective 23 Jul 03 OP points no longer count towards FSP.

I do know there was something funny about one of the "operations" and thought it was Bosnia.

 

[PiperDown]

Hmmm - trying to reach someone still doing OPS to check on this.  As it was an ops I wonder why they paid FPS instead of OPS FPS? I originally did not enter it in the calculator as an op as FSP was paid instead of OP FSP which came in back in 2000.  Entering it as an OP changes the HAB to 8 points, level 1.

Also remember now what the 23 Jul 03 date was for - it has to do with the calculation of FPS and OP FPS points. Up to the 22 Jul 03 they were cross counted. Effective 23 Jul 03 OP points no longer count towards FPS.  I

he CBI for HA Bonus says points are calculated based on months in operation. I realize that since 23 July 2003, a convenient way for a clerk to figure out if a member was on operation is to count the number of months in receipt of OP FSP. I am just saying that prior to 23 July, (before OP FSP was created) there must be another way to calculate points.

ps... I was on OP Palladium ROTO 12.. an OPERATION under NATO.

I have a copy of the pay screen from last year (before I went on my TAV to afghanistan 10 Nov 2008 to 23 Dec 2008)

557 - Foreign Service Premium 01 Apr 2003 - 22 Jul 2003
559 - OPS Foreign Service Premium 23 Jul 2003 - 28 Sep 2003
885 - Hardship Allowance 01 Apr 2003 - 28 Sep 2003
886 - Risk Allowance 01 Apr 2003 - 28 Sep 2003

 

[X-mo-1979]

Be prepared to have your pay messed up for a while.
Be prepared to have clerks tell you they don't know why.
Be prepared after a very long op to be called down to see the clerk.

It was the norm on our tour,and some guys were still messed up when we arrived back home.
Getting ANY answers about pay benifits (i.e do we pay taxes if we leave before the month was over?) you will get the run around until your home and don't care anymore.

 

[CountDC]

he CBI for HA Bonus says points are calculated based on months in operation. I realize that since 23 July 2003, a convenient way for a clerk to figure out if a member was on operation is to count the number of months in receipt of OP FSP. I am just saying that prior to 23 July, (before OP FSP was created) there must be another way to calculate points.

ps... I was on OP Palladium ROTO 12.. an OPERATION under NATO.

I have a copy of the pay screen from last year (before I went on my TAV to afghanistan 10 Nov 2008 to 23 Dec 2008)

557 - Foreign Service Premium 01 Apr 2003 - 22 Jul 2003
559 - OPS Foreign Service Premium 23 Jul 2003 - 28 Sep 2003
885 - Hardship Allowance 01 Apr 2003 - 28 Sep 2003
886 - Risk Allowance 01 Apr 2003 - 28 Sep 2003

I use an auto point calculator that was orginally designed by someone in DCBA I believe and modified by myself when working in OPS.  It has been used by CFSU(O) FSS Ops for everyone on small ops for the last 3 years.  The type of allowance paid (FSP or OP FSP) does not matter on its own as it could have been a clerical error.  You enter the dates the member was there, indicate if it was an op, it will then calculate all the points (FSP, OP FSP and HAB) and tell you the members level. Pay history screen is only one source - MPRRs, Pers Files and the member are all additional sources that have to be checked. There are also various messages that you have to know and may need to verify the info to calculate points.  Normally the Navy is the hardest to do as anytime they have served on a ship is a potential period for this.  There is  a message that lists the ships, qual dates and number of points granted.

I could not reach my contact by phone so have emailed him. I may go over that way to talk to someone as it is driving me crazy trying to remember what it was about the odd one I thought was Bosnia. Did Bosnia start out as NATO or was it changed to a NATO part way through?

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Well out of my lane but didn't the missions to FRY fall under at least 4 different names (1 UN and 3 NATO)?

UNPROFOR - February 1992, and its restructuring into other forces in March 1995

KFOR -  June 12, 1999 to currently on going

IFOR - 20 December 1995 to 20 December 1996

SFOR - December 21, 1996 to December 2, 2004

EDITED TO ADD DATES.

 

[CountDC]

Must have done something wrong as I thought I already posted this.

I have confirmed with CFSU(O) FSS OPS that using FSP/OPS FSP paid is incorrect as even though OPS FSP technically was in effect back in 2000 the two were cross counted so was entered into the system still as FSP until 23 JUl 2003 when they were seperated.  Bosnia does count fully for the points as an Operation.  Another point that they reminded me of was the HA paid to you - this should have been a trigger (have kicked myself for missing that one).

I would attach the calculator for you but it is an excel doc that can not be done here.

 

[PiperDown]

Must have done something wrong as I thought I already posted this.

I have confirmed with CFSU(O) FSS OPS that using FSP/OPS FSP paid is incorrect as even though OPS FSP technically was in effect back in 2000 the two were cross counted so was entered into the system still as FSP until 23 JUl 2003 when they were seperated.  Bosnia does count fully for the points as an Operation.  Another point that they reminded me of was the HA paid to you - this should have been a trigger (have kicked myself for missing that one).

I would attach the calculator for you but it is an excel doc that can not be done here.

Thanks for all your hard work, I really appreciate it !  I realize you have better things to do than to sort out my personal pay questions. (especially when there is supposed to be someone at my own unit doing it) 

Now that I have some knowledge ammo I will go back to my clerk.  I just wanted to make sure that I was not in the wrong thinking I should be entitled to an HA Bonus.

Should I direct my deployment cell clerk to CFSU (O) FSS Ops if they still argue?

PS.. I have no idea why they don't use a nifty program instead of just "eye balling" and potentially making an error that can cost a member a couple hundred bucks a month.

 

[CountDC]

Naw - I'm just doing a hand over, dealing with year end fin and leave, preparing to go on course in 2 weeks, squeezing in some family leave, parade practice, BOA parade, running my OR, and all the other million and one things I always seem to have no matter how many hours I work.  You know - normal work load for clerks - oh yeah, and cruising here during my break times as assigned by me.  ;D

Speaking for myself - I would politely ask them to contact FSS OPS or another SME on it.  FSS OPS can be reached at the numbers on this link (names may not match):

http://cfsuo.mil.ca/fss/contact_us-ops_e.asp

 

[OldPW]

Was this issue ever resolved PiperDown?  Just wanted to weigh in on how HAB is calculated.  It is a common misconception that OPS-FSP or FSP have some bearing on the points but that's not actually the case.  To calculate the bonus, what is actually counted is previous months in receipt of HA, previous periods (prior to 1 Oct 2000) in receipt of PDA while on Operations, and previous periods (prior to 1 Dec 1995) in receipt of Foreign Duty Allowance (FDA).  If your clerk has an older copy of the DDIO laying around, this info is detailed in there.  The current DDIO is undergoing change on the CEFCOM website and so does not have all the necessary info. 

 

[PiperDown]

Was this issue ever resolved PiperDown?  Just wanted to weigh in on how HAB is calculated.  It is a common misconception that OPS-FSP or FSP have some bearing on the points but that's not actually the case.  To calculate the bonus, what is actually counted is previous months in receipt of HA, previous periods (prior to 1 Oct 2000) in receipt of PDA while on Operations, and previous periods (prior to 1 Dec 1995) in receipt of Foreign Duty Allowance (FDA).  If your clerk has an older copy of the DDIO laying around, this info is detailed in there.  The current DDIO is undergoing change on the CEFCOM website and so does not have all the necessary info.

Yes, thank you. It did get sorted out, but it took my clerk in KAF to do it. As soon as she saw my pay screen she noticed I was entitled to HA bonus and she fixed it.