Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[ueo]

100% this. With all the new found nationalism stemming from Trump's annexation threats now would probably be the ideal time to put forward such legislation. Anyone with contacts in the PP and Carney campaigns that can put a bug in their ears?

Uh what ? Who can demand change?

 

[Good2Golf]

Also if interest OTHR has issues when the ionosphere is disturbed. Which means aurora borealis will cause problems in the Arctic for it. They can probably deal with this to an extent as software will be developed to adjust. @Good2Golf thoughts on this?

The aurora itself is more a result/outcome than the cause, which is solar radiation (predominantly x-rays, coupling other longer-wave EM radiation) impinging the Earth’s magnetosphere and some of that folding down into the ionosphere, so there doesn’t have to be a notable aurora to still have significant impact to OTHR systems.

S/W could definitely aid in adjusting and responding to alterations in the ionosphere (itself a zone comprised of the top of the mesosphere [about 75-90km], the entire thermosphere [100-10,000km] and the lower exosphere [about 10,000-50,000km] ) that affect the path of OTHR waves, and probably to an increasing degree given increased processing power to support modeling ionospheric change.

Also useful in modeling would be in sounding; using a low power HF chirping (repetitive sweeping from low to high frequency in a particular portion of the HF (3-30MHz) band) the atmosphere with an HF system and using multi-static (multiplication) receivers to assess the atmospheric response to the signal. An ionogram (a chart of freq vs alt) would to inform OTH users of factors to adjust their targeting algorithms. The OTHR system itself could also be used to ionosound and update the ionospheric model for the radar’s calculations.

AFAIK, there is an independent ionosounding facility in Germany, and the others are associated with OTHR facilities themselves, namely JORN in Australia with has at least 10-12 isosondes and Russia’s Container (29B6 radar, the New ‘Duga’) OTHR system SW of Moscow. I don’t know how many isosondes Russia has to support Container.

 

[ytz]

Defending flanks is for chumps.

More seriously though, why Borden?
Even with a 3000km range and 180 degree arc you'd think that it should be farther North and more central to optimize national coverage.

Borden is controlled by the CAF. Much easier to build and maintain. And an NLOS OTH system can reach much further. I don't get comments like this. Do you guys think requirements were randomly made up and know thought about the AOO, AOI and AORs being surveilled when they wrote the specs?

 

[GR66]

Uh what ? Who can demand change?

Nobody's "demanding" anything. It was noted that one of the main things which prevents significant reform to the Reserve system is the lack of effective job protection legislation. There has up to now never been any major incentive to introduce such changes.

I simply suggested that now, while nationalism is at a high (heck, some people are even openly suggesting national service) would be a good time for such legislation to be proposed since support for the changes would likely be higher than any time in recent history.

 

[JLB50]

Nobody's "demanding" anything. It was noted that one of the main things which prevents significant reform to the Reserve system is the lack of effective job protection legislation. There has up to now never been any major incentive to introduce such changes.

I simply suggested that now, while nationalism is at a high (heck, some people are even openly suggesting national service) would be a good time for such legislation to be proposed since support for the changes would likely be higher than any time in recent history.

Although I would like to see some form of national service, I just can’t see Quebec going along with it. Still I think the idea should at least be discussed by our politicians.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Borden is controlled by the CAF. Much easier to build and maintain. And an NLOS OTH system can reach much further. I don't get comments like this. Do you guys think requirements were randomly made up and know thought about the AOO, AOI and AORs being surveilled when they wrote the specs?

A "?" generally denotes a question.
Open source information on Australia's JORN system puts the range at 3000km. Based on that information, the question is warranted. An answer of "ours will have longer range than the Aussies, so Borden will work fine" answers it pretty succinctly

As to the rest,, seriously? This board's raison d'etre essentially is to question the disconnect between what needs to be/should be done and what ends up happening, and the reason is often political. We're not 1 week removed and explanation (I believe by you) on the Kingfisher procurement being unduly influenced by Industry pursuing IRB's and forcing specifications to be relaxed.

 

[ytz]

A "?" generally denotes a question.
Open source information on Australia's JORN system puts the range at 3000km. Based on that information, the question is warranted. An answer of "ours will have longer range than the Aussies, so Borden will work fine" answers it pretty succinctly

As to the rest,, seriously? This board's raison d'etre essentially is to question the disconnect between what needs to be/should be done and what ends up happening, and the reason is often political. We're not 1 week removed and explanation (I believe by you) on the Kingfisher procurement being unduly influenced by Industry pursuing IRB's and forcing specifications to be relaxed.

The specification, in this case, wasn't bent for JORN. The site was chosen years ago. Whatever bidder won was always going to build there. They did various siting studies and chose Borden.

 

[Czech_pivo]

The specification, in this case, wasn't bent for JORN. The site was chosen years ago. Whatever bidder won was always going to build there. They did various siting studies and chose Borden.

Did the proximity to U of Waterloo and its quantum physics department and top shelf computer science/programming department play any potential role in Borden being chosen? Could it be used as a recruiting tool to get some of these students to enlist in the CAF, work on the Radar system and still be located close to the geographic area that they very well may be where they came from?

 

[Rifleman62]

In units and formations across Canada, Reservists at this level maintain operational and administrative readiness....

I call BS unless things have radically changed in the last decade. I bet not every PRes mbr med/dent is up to date. How long, as discussed many times, does it take the Army to initiate/process Class C contracts? Unlike the Air Force, seems the Army has not a clue how to do the task in a timely manner.

But I think it's nicely accomplished the main goal in line with overall government policy: more virtue signaling

You got that 100% correct.

To me I believe that the primary IFV should be tracked to work with tanks.

To work probably with wheedled SP Arty the way it is looking.

 

[Kirkhill]

Although I would like to see some form of national service, I just can’t see Quebec going along with it. Still I think the idea should at least be discussed by our politicians.

In WW2 Quebecers (some) accepted national service for home defence. They objected to being conscripted and sent overseas without their consent.

 

[JLB50]

In WW2 Quebecers (some) accepted national service for home defence. They objected to being conscripted and sent overseas without their consent.

i like to think that the BQ would be open minded and see that it would be for the common good. Somehow I just can’t see them supporting it without the rest of Canada giving up something major to support their plan for eventual independence.

 

[Rifleman62]

National Service does not have to be military. Let Quebecers plant trees.

 

[ytz]

Although I would like to see some form of national service, I just can’t see Quebec going along with it. Still I think the idea should at least be discussed by our politicians.

It's not just Quebecers who would vote against it.

Young people have been royally screwed in this country. And not just by this government (though this one exacerbated them). Their problems have been decades in the making. Asking them to now give up productive years, for conscript compensation, is fundamentally unfair. They'd vote against it. And as a parent, so would I.

If there's going to be national service (and it's not even something I disagree with), it better come with massive social change on the fundamental generational economic imbalances in our society.

 

[ytz]

i like to think that the BQ would be open minded and see that it would be for the common good. Somehow I just can’t see them supporting it without the rest of Canada giving up something major to support their plan for eventual independence.

Did you not learn about the Conscription crisis in grade school? What Quebecers objected to, was fighting in a foreign war. Not necessarily the idea of service. And I think you'd have an even harder time convincing a large chunk of Canadians on this idea today. Heck, people are struggling with the idea of just financial and military aid to Ukraine. Any government that said they were going to draft people to potentially fight in Ukraine would probably lose party status in the election that followed.

 

[Czech_pivo]

It depends - pay them, of course, but then give them some sort of tuition/room/board fee waver for a year in addition to compensation.

That's a potential savings of about 13-14k in addition for their 1yr paid service - AND, no fricking 'means' test against this tuition waver, room/board waver as well. These kids should not be penalized based on their parents income. Treat them ALL EQUALLY.

It's not just Quebecers who would vote against it.

Young people have been royally screwed in this country. And not just by this government (though this one exacerbated them). Their problems have been decades in the making. Asking them to now give up productive years, for conscript compensation, is fundamentally unfair. They'd vote against it. And as a parent, so would I.

If there's going to be national service (and it's not even something I disagree with), it better come with massive social change on the fundamental generational economic imbalances in our society.

 

[Kirkhill]

Here's a thought. Pipelines as a strategic asset. Construction as a public-private-partnership with the Federal Government offloading some of the costs, and much of the regulatory burden, by creating a civil version of the US Army Corps of Engineers. Available as a National Service option. Perhaps even associated with fire service and wilderness management.

 

[ytz]

It depends - pay them, of course, but then give them some sort of tuition/room/board fee waver for a year in addition to compensation.

That's a potential savings of about 13-14k in addition for their 1yr paid service - AND, no fricking 'means' test against this tuition waver, room/board waver as well. These kids should not be penalized based on their parents income. Treat them ALL EQUALLY.

Every proposal I've seen this, usually from those who are ignorant on these matters, always see this as a cheap way to boost numbers. But if this has to actually be sold to young people, it can't be done cheaply. What you propose probably wouldn't be enough. There has to be a fundamental change in this:

What you're proposing is for the poorest cohort in the country to give up a crucial year. Compensation for that better be a lot more than a year's worth of education. Especially if they then face tax increases to fund this. My personal proposal would start at $100k in carry forward tax credits. And it would go a lot higher if there's any consideration to deploy these folks. And that's on top of conscript pay, 0% student loans, etc.

Keep in mind, you're not just selling this idea to this board. You need to sell this to the very young people who have to do this and all their parents. And I haven't seen an idea here what I would vote for, as a parent, and CAF member. I can only imagine how the muggles will take these fever dreams of compelled service.

 

[JLB50]

Did you not learn about the Conscription crisis in grade school? What Quebecers objected to, was fighting in a foreign war. Not necessarily the idea of service. And I think you'd have an even harder time convincing a large chunk of Canadians on this idea today. Heck, people are struggling with the idea of just financial and military aid to Ukraine. Any government that said they were going to draft people to potentially fight in Ukraine would probably lose party status in the election that followed.

I’m not really disagreeing with you about younger people and what they are going through in these times and should have included that as well in my doubts about conscription being feasible. I learned about the conscription crisis many decades ago. However, please note that I did mention “some form of national service”.

My roots began in the U.S. Midwest with my grandparents and parents going through the terrible Great Depression and the Dustbowl years. It was a time when millions of Americans were able to get back to work and regain at least some dignity through the establishment of government agencies like the Civilian Conservation Corps and the W.P.A. And then, of course, along came the war which put millions of mostly men back to work as well. Sometimes government screws things up for the average worker. But, on the other hand, sometimes big business screws things up as well and then just shrugs and walks away with money in hand leaving the government to clean up the mess. We’re living in a time when both big business and big government have failed the people at all levels. In conclusion I would like to see either a form of conscription or at least some major (I mean REALLY major) projects involving tens or even hundreds of thousands of young Canadians, helping them to do something substantial, to gain work experience and to develop a sense of pride in what they have done.

 

[ytz]

In conclusion I would like to see either a form of conscription or at least some major (I mean REALLY major) projects involving tens or even hundreds of thousands of young Canadians, helping them to do something substantial, to gain work experience and to develop a sense of pride in what they have done.

If we're doing this to help young people, making them dig trenches and fill sandbags is not how it's done. Just cut back on the number of foreign students (and the hours they work) and cap immigration so that young grads aren't competing with immigrants who have 10 more years of work experience for an entry level job.

Let's be clear, it has been a series of conscious policy decisions to screw young people to benefit the old. Conscripting them to help them gain experience is bordering on Orwellian irony.

 

[Halifax Tar]

It's not just Quebecers who would vote against it.

Young people have been royally screwed in this country. And not just by this government (though this one exacerbated them). Their problems have been decades in the making. Asking them to now give up productive years, for conscript compensation, is fundamentally unfair. They'd vote against it. And as a parent, so would I.

If there's going to be national service (and it's not even something I disagree with), it better come with massive social change on the fundamental generational economic imbalances in our society.

I agree. I think its time for the wealthiest generation to pony up. Lets draft everyone 45 years old and up. This would also help sort out our lopsided age/wealth issue.

If the old men want to go to war, well lets send them. And no buying your way out.

For the record Im 46.