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German Cdos in AFG Dinged for "Nazi Symbol" on Vehicle

The Bread Guy

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Just spotted this in what's usually a pretty right-of-centre news source ....

German elite soldiers used Nazi symbol
United Press International, 1 Nov 06
http://www.washtimes.com/upi/20061101-013719-5791r.htm

"Germany's elite soldiers in Afghanistan have painted a Nazi symbol onto their vehicles, a German news magazine reported.  The soldiers of the elite unit Kommando Spezialkraefte, or KSK, had sprayed a palm tree and an iron cross onto their vehicles, a symbol reminiscent of one used during World War II by the Wehrmacht's in Africa, German news magazine Stern reports in its latest issue, which will hit the newsstands Thursday.  Stern published a photograph of a white off-road vehicle with the symbol on it, used during the KSK's training in Oman and later in a mission in Afghanistan, the magazine said.  In the Nazi era, the famed Africa Corps under the command of 'Desert Fox' Erwin Rommel used a similar symbol, a palm tree with a swastika painted across.  "Some of our guys are stuck in the past and thought it was cool to drive around with this Wehrmacht emblem," an unidentified KSK soldier, who was not named, told Stern. "I and others found it sickening."  The German defense ministry has said it has launched an investigation." ....

Let's see - someone took the Bundeswehr's symbol of the Iron Cross (see below), added a palm tree, and now because its kinda-sorta-almost like the Afrika Korps symbol (also see below), there's an investigation.

Yes, it comes on the heels of the German skull photos.  Yes, there's likely more history and emotion involved in German military circles than I can imagine.  But is this going a bit far?  While I'll buy the definition of the swastika as a Nazi symbol, and I'll even buy the Afrika Korps symbol (maybe) as one stirring up memories, if the Iron Cross is the official symbol of today's German military, how does adding a palm tree make it a "Nazi symbol"?

Then again, if you believe Wikipedia, some units of the Afrika Korps still have successor units:  "The 15th Panzer Division was reconstituted as the 15th Panzergrenadier Division, the 90th Light Division was reconstituted as the 90th Panzergrenadier Division, and the 21st Panzer Division was reconstituted under its own name."

Happy to hear from you if you have more insights into how today's German military deals with its history.

 
My grandad still talks about North Africa as a clean war, one that wasnt vicious or as cruel as New Guinea or Europe was. He still talks about the Afrika Corp with respect and admiration for what they achieved. He see's the German (and he calls them Germans, definately not Nazi's) that he fought against as men, not monsters. And he has a great deal of pride in the current ADF. Why cant these Germans show some respect for they're forefathers who fought in North Africa by using a symbol that resembles one used 60 years ago? So much of current Germany could be said to be a Nazi symbol. The Parliament used to have a Swastika on it, does that make it a Nazi symbol just because it doesnt have one any more? So many historic German buildings would have to be knocked down if we decided that anything that used to have a swastika on it is a "Nazi" symbol.
I cant see a link. North Africa wasnt like Europe, the Afrika Corp wasnt like the SS and a symbol that means nothing to most people isnt a Nazi symbol if it has no Nazi conatactions.
Thats what i think anyway and my grandfather who was at Tobruk and El Alamain to name a few, agrees.
 
D187 "Rommel" was a guided missile destroy of the Bundesmarine.  Commissioned in 1970 by none other than the widow of Erwin Rommel.  She served until 1980-something.
D186 "Mölders" was a sister ship, named for Battle of Britain ace Werner Mölders.  Incidentally, a Luftwaffe squadron bore his name until last year when a member of the Bundestag, who came from the old- "German Democratic Republic" pressured the government to remove his name (because Mölders served with the Kondor legion in Spain)
There is also a barracks named after Rommel in Ulm (Swabia)

Oh, Rommel's son was mayor of Stuttgart for the longest time, IIRC.



 
It's bizarre to see such an abject shunning of past achievements.  Nothing wrong with being proud of the history of your military; not everything from the Third Reich should be scrubbed away.  As we honour those who fought before us, they should be able to as well.

The famed "Desert Rats" who faced off against the Afrika Korps are still around, no?
 
I'm going to be looking for the German magazine piece to see (with what little Deutsche I can remember from Grade 11) how close the UPI lead/headline matches reality.
 
milnewstbay said:
I'm going to be looking for the German magazine piece to see (with what little Deutsche I can remember from Grade 11) how close the UPI lead/headline matches reality.
If you find a link, let me know.  Ich kann deutsch wie ein Deutscher.  ;)

Hauptmann
 
von Garvin said:
If you find a link, let me know.  Ich kann deutsch wie ein Deutscher.  ;)

Hauptmann

Kann ich ein großes Bier bitte haben?

Vernmeister
 
milnewstbay said:
I'm going to be looking for the German magazine piece to see (with what little Deutsche I can remember from Grade 11) how close the UPI lead/headline matches reality.

Well if the German version of the headline were to match, it should read:

"Deutsche elitäre Soldaten haben Nazistisches Symbol benutzt"
 
From http://www.stern.de/presse/vorab/575280.html?nv=ma_ct

(usual dealings act: fair sharing and all)



KSK-Soldaten bedienten sich bei Auslandseinsatz eines Wehrmachts-Emblems
Soldaten des Kommando Spezialkräfte (KSK), der Elitetruppe der Bundeswehr, haben vor und während ihres ersten Afghanistan-Einsatzes ab Ende 2001 ein nachgemachtes Wehrmachtssymbol auf Geländefahrzeugen verwendet. Das berichtet das Hamburger Magazin stern in seiner neuen, am Donnerstag Ausgabe.

Das Magazin veröffentlicht ein Foto von einem Wolf-Geländewagen, auf dessen Seitentür das nachgemachte Palmensymbol von Adolf Hitlers Deutschem Afrika-Korps aufgesprüht ist. Das Bild hätten KSK-Soldaten in ihrem Lager auf der omanischen Halbinsel Masirah fotografiert, wo sie sich ab Ende November 2001 auf ihren Einsatz in Afghanistan vorbereiteten. Ein KSK-Soldat zum stern: "Ein paar unserer Jungs sind Ewiggestrige und fanden es besonders schick, mit dieser Wehrmachtsinsignie herumzufahren". Fahrzeuge mit dem nachgemachten Emblem des Afrika-Korps habe der Soldat auch nach deren Verwendung in Afghanistan am Heimatstandort des KSK im baden-württembergischen Calw gesehen, berichtet der stern weiter.

Das Foto und die Aussagen des Soldaten im stern werden möglicherweise den Verteidigungsausschuss des Deutschen Bundestages beschäftigen, der als Untersuchungsausschuss Misshandlungsvorwürfe des früheren US-Gefangenen Murat Kurnaz gegen KSK-Soldaten sowie Rolle und Tätigkeit der deutschen Spezialkräfte bei ihren streng geheimen Afghanistan-Einsätzen 2001/2002 untersuchen soll.



And now, in english


KSK Soldiers serving on a foreign mission serve with a symbol of the Wehrmacht (German Armed Forces in WWII)
According to the Hamburg-based magazine “Stern”, soldiers of the elite KSK of the Bundeswehr have been using Wehrmacht symbols on their cross country vehicles, before and during their mission in Afghanistan.
The magazine will publish a photo of a Wolf (“LUVW”) on which the Palm symbol of “Adolf Hitler’s” Afrika Korps is sprayed on.  KSK soldiers are said to have taken the photo on the Omani peninsula of Masirah, where they were preparing for their Afghanistan mission at the end of November 2001.  A KSK soldier said to Stern: “A few of our young lads are stuck in yesteryear and thought it was cool to run around with this insignia of the Wehrmacht.”  Following their mission in Afghanistan, vehicles with the re-made symbol of the Afrika Korps were reported to have been seen back in the home station of the KSK in Calw (Baden Wuerttemberg), Stern reported.
The photo and the reports of the soldiers will probably be examined by the defence committee of the German Bundestag (parliament), which is also examining reports of the alleged abuse of the former prisoner of the US, Murat Kurnaz.  They will also conduct an inquiry into the role of the German Special Forces during its top secret mission in Afghanistan in 2001 and 2002.
 
Infanteer said:
Ich habe ein gross bleistift....
Put your Bleistift away, or I'll pull out my Kuegelschreiber and make a mess of this place ;)
 
The Librarian said:
This topic could get interesting....
Both of you should put your pens and pencils away and get out the darn beer!!
 
Trust me, it only SOUNDS dirty

(HIJACK ALERT!)

German words that only sound dirty in English

Dich
Dicke
Lust
Lecher


(they mean "you", "fat", "want" and "delicious")

(HIJACK ENDS)
 
The Librarian said:
Well if the German version of the headline were to match, it should read:

"Deutsche elitäre Soldaten haben Nazistisches Symbol benutzt"
Pretty close, gnaedige Frau!
"Elite-truppen der Bundeswehr haben Nazi-Symbols benuetzt"
 
Jawohl, Fraulein.

Librarian, du bist meine schatze.... :-*

Auf wiedersehen!
 
OK Infanteer,

I'll buy you a beer for that one!!  ;)
 
Having been in the Rommel Kasserne in 1983, during the Boeselager Recce competition, I find it unusual that this is news.  The Soldiers in that Kasserne were surrounded with many photos and symbols covering the history of those units garrisoned there and of the Kasserne's namesake.  They were no different than any other military units.  Just like we cover our walls with historical Regimental photos, banners, trophies, etc, so do they.
 
The Bunderswehr has any number of units that share traditions, barracks, and symbols with the old German army. The trouble is, most of these don't have any coverage in the news media. Our partnership unit was the 352 Panzergrenadier Battalion in Mellrichstadt. It carried the same number as the Wehrmacht division that fought against the US Army on Omaha beach.

Yeah, we can all look at this and think, "No big deal." But every service has had its own internal dealings that spun out of control once the media latched onto it. The Marine Corps went thru a tempest in the teapot several years back over the blood wings tradition and it even affected the Army. We had a tradition in my unit of pinning rank that went out the window after that.

The Germans don't know what to do with their history. I wonder what they think of the uniforms the Bunderswehr wears? Their camo pattern, collar patches, ranks, uniform cut, and so forth, all stem from the old German army.
 
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