Future of ATHENA: Manning issues & LAV III upgrades

[Scoobie Newbie]

BPSO-doubt it in the traditional sense
battle school-why they aren't regimental anymore
OT-doubt it in the traditional sense

Other combat arms troops KNOW a lot of what 031 does if not all of it so they shouldn't have a problem re-rolling. Other trades will take time to get to speed such as potential clerks etc.  However given you example of an armoured crewman you picked a relatively easy transition (that's not to say that the armoured crewmen aren't in short supply either).

 

[Haggis]

I'm not saying they aren't doing an amazing job, I have bled with them, what I am saying is that if were going to spend money on training for units lets spend the money where it counts which in my mind is the regs, I don't think anyone on here would argue that on avg Res F pers are under trained then their Reg counter parts (note under trained not poorly trained). I don't have an issue with say 3 year commitment to by the Res Pers where we are getting our bang out of the money we are putting into them.

The solution as I see it is to spend more money on the Reservist while s/he is still on the armoury floor.  Kit him properly, get him his shots/dental/ I Card (not the "you're not a real soldier so we won't give you a real I card" card)/dog tags.  Give him more than 50 odd rounds/year.  Keep him fit.  Then when it's time to deploy him, he's mostly ready to start training withtout tha administrative handicaps we impose on Reservists now.  And, for chrissakes, ensure he is properly and fully briefed on his pay and benefits up front BEFORE he signs on the dotted line.  Don't jerk him around.

I completely agree 100% it needs to be interim.

Yep, and when Afghanistan calms down you can replace Reg F inf Coys with Res F Inf Coys, run by guys with recent tour experience with a Reg F unit.  That'll release the Reg F Coys to go on the next Roto 0 in the new hotspot.

 

[Pencil Tech]

I think you missed the point on that.  He isn't saying it is going to take 36 months to get them trained up to snuff.  He is saying give them the incentive of 36 months Class C Pay.

What's the difference between a 36 month Class C res contract and a three-year Reg Force contract?

 

[Haggis]

What's the difference between a 36 month Class C res contract and a three-year Reg Force contract?

Nothing, really, except that the soldier could retain his Reserve parent unit affiliation and cap badge/headdress.

 

[George Wallace]

What's the difference between a 36 month Class C res contract and a three-year Reg Force contract?

Nothing.

The end of the contract is different though.  The Reservist goes back to their Parent Unit and parades with them.  The Reg Force Soldier either signs a 'Re-engagement' or becomes an unemployed civie.

 

[Kirkhill]

I am still missing something here - not unusual I know.  But sticking with the armoured/infantry transition how difficult would if be to re-role/re-task/re-assign current Coyote crews from Coyotes to LAVs and assign a half-section of infanteers to each crew to generate a LAV with 7 soldiers including a 4-man dismount?

Everybody stays with the job they know.

Is it all about the capbadge?  Couldn't it still work with both teams keeping their capbadges?

 

[George Wallace]

I am still missing something here - not unusual I know.  But sticking with the armoured/infantry transition how difficult would if be to re-role/re-task/re-assign current Coyote crews from Coyotes to LAVs and assign a half-section of infanteers to each crew to generate a LAV with 7 soldiers including a 4-man dismount?

Everybody stays with the job they know.

Is it all about the capbadge?  Couldn't it still work with both teams keeping their capbadges?

The Turret Crew would have no problems as the turrets are 99% the same.  The Driver would be required to take a week long Air Brake Crse and then a D&M Crse. 

After that, most would have little more of a 'Learning Curve' to go through.

Questions of Hatbadges and Berets are already heated discussions in other forums.

 

[HItorMiss]

It's working well for the Engineers in theater now, the RCDs crew and fight the vehicle and the the Engineers are free to concentrate on thier job.

 

[Kirkhill]

Questions of Hatbadges and Berets are already heated discussions in other forums.

And I would hate to see that become the focus of this discussion.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

D&M???

The drivers compartments are totally different.

Also are there armoured guys to spare??

 

[Nfld Sapper]

D&M???

The drivers compartments are totally different.

Also are there armoured guys to spare??

D & M Course = Driver and Maintenance Course

So yes they will show them the difference in drivers compartments  ;D

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Thanks.  That LAV cockpit has a lot of bells an whistles.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

I know, had to jump in one for my Air Brakes course.

 

[Brad Sallows]

It sounds like "managed readiness" should be expanded to "managed growth".  Cut tempo (if necessary) and add a 6-month "man the schools" phase before the "reconstitution" phase (assuming there is still a "reconstitution" phase in whatever is the current evolution of MR) in order to run the next booster shot of recruits through BMQ/SQ/B?Q.

 

[Journeyman]

add a 6-month "man the schools" phase before the "reconstitution" phase

The only snag that leaps to mind is, I hope you're talking local BSL courses. Coming home off pre-depl training, then six-months in the box, only to be told you're now off to CTC to support some advanced courses... ...I think the only one to benefit would be the divorce lawyers.

(I did a year unaccompanied, followed by the Airborne Regt - - we were out in the boonies a fair bit. When I was packing for SFOR, the 'ex-' said, "have a nice tour - - I'm out").

 

[vanislerev]

  Cut tempo (if necessary) and add a 6-month "man the schools" phase before the "reconstitution" phase (assuming there is still a "reconstitution" phase in whatever is the current evolution of MR) in order to run the next booster shot of recruits through BMQ/SQ/B?Q.

All this will accomplish is more Pte's like myself and the hundreds of others on PAT platoons...

 

[vonGarvin]

Not talking about cap badges, but the gunners (all trades) now receive one course, standardised army wide.  It's called Turret Operator.  At the end, the graduate is qualified to be employed as a gunner.
Crew Commanding a LAV and Crew Commanding a Coyote are different.  Coyote is more technical and I don't mean from the crew supervision skills, but the overall job of crew commanding an armoured recce vehicle.
One disadvantage of having armoured crewman operating a LAV for engineers is that vehicle now has 7 engineers (only) and three crewmen.  Ideally, with all 10 being engineers, when they leave the LAV, you have ten engineers (or 9, or whatever the ORBAT is for a field section in LAVs).  Conversely, when fighting as infantry, and assume that the LAV is being employed as an OP, there are then (in theory) only two persons qualified to operate that turret.
Having homogenous sections is much preferable, in my opinion, then heterogenous.  This is irrespective of capbadge.

 

[geo]

VG +1

 

[Kirkhill]

VG, would it be a manageable method of spreading out the workload until more 031s and 011s can be trained and units plumped up a bit?

 

[vonGarvin]

Kirkhill
I'm not sure.  I'm not privy to the state of manning affairs across the nation.  Perhaps in theory as a stop-gap, but it should be avoided, lest the LAVs end up as glorified taxis. 

Let's not forget that the 011s have a job to do, and they are very good at it.  Crewing the LAVs for the Engrs, in this case, I believe was due to the situation at the time.

As I said, the Turret Operator is a new course, the result of a lot of good work out of my cell (I'm like a proud daddy on this one).  It's not a perfect course (none is), but from all reports, much better than the myriad of courses that used to exist, and problems such these are one of the reasons we went to DAT a year ago about this course.  Lo and behold, less than 10 months later, it was signed off by the CLS.  That's courseware, TP, QS, everything