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Future of ATHENA: Manning issues & LAV III upgrades

Putting reserve guys on full time contract....no offence but doesnt that go against the reason for having a reserve force?

(Note:I know res guys with 15 years b class etc.Im just stating that while the reserves deploy,taking time off work I would think if they wanted full time they would join the regs.Am I not correct?)
 
Most reservists join in HS or university, so this would look to hire them when they complete school (IMO). It is far, far easier to put them on full-time contract (done in days) than CT to the Reg F (weeks to months!).
 
COBRA-6 said:
Most reservists join in HS or university, so this would look to hire them when they complete school (IMO). It is far, far easier to put them on full-time contract (done in days) than CT to the Reg F (weeks to months!).

This would allow them to continue with their Trades Trg and Progression, and make them better candidates for the CT.  If the Clerical Staff handling them during this employment period had control of their files, not their original Unit, the CT process may be quicker also.  Treat this employment as a Posting, as it would be in the Reg Force.
 
099* said:
Putting reserve guys on full time contract....no offence but doesnt that go against the reason for having a reserve force?

(Note:I know res guys with 15 years b class etc.Im just stating that while the reserves deploy,taking time off work I would think if they wanted full time they would join the regs.Am I not correct?)
I don't believe you went there.  Your on your own buddy.
 
Spring_bok said:
I don't believe you went there.  Your on your own buddy.

No no!It aint a slag! Im just wondering why they would call out guys for three years when they are volunteering now.Plus the guys who have good jobs in their local area wouldnt want to leave for 3 years im sure.

No slag intended.
 
The fastest way to fill personnel short falls is to reclassify soldiers from overstrength MOC's I think you call them ? Another way is to lure soldiers away from reserve units. This last method hurts the reserves but the regular army units have to be filled.Primary reserve units dont deploy as units overseas,you arent affecting the combat readiness of these units, particularly since many just have one rifle company.
 
099* said:
No slag intended.
I know its not a slag but those kids of questions have been known to totally derail an otherwise informative thread. That is all.
tomahawk6 said:
The fastest way to fill personnel short falls is to reclassify soldiers from overstrength MOC's I think you call them ?
Do we have any overborne trades right now?  Not sure if we do but cbt arms trades are significantly underborne right now.
 
They're not done yet. Not just personnel re-org, but I see some structural changes coming too.

Trade A being told they're now doing A + 1/2 B; Trade C, you're now doing C + 1/2 B. Trade B, you're now zero manned and your PYs just became Infantry. Giddyup.

Of course, this discussion should have been moved down to the Mess several "uninformed future guesses" ago. ;)
 
There is no doubt that, while we are standing up the CSOR, we're robbing Peter to pay Paul....
 
From my understanding of this, it could work. Look at the number of people in PRETC in Borden. Almost 400-600 on strenght, with some doing EWAT to other places. Some ways to go around this strenght problem, as I see it, is get the trained and qualifed cpls, m/mpls and Sgts. that CT'd from the resevres, and send them to Meaford to instruct on BMQ, SQ and INF, or whatever its called. I just left PRETC, and for over the better part of the year there was around 15 Qualified instructors running around with the untrained guys. At least 3 were sgts before CTing, and one that was qual'd for his WO. They could run a few BMQ and SQ courses, while clearin the way for some of the other guys to return to units or even run more courses.

Instead of having trained and qualifed people running around, put them to use, instead of putting back in the reserve units they came from  on reg force pay.
 
x-grunt said:
The idea that you can be accepted into one trade and then be arbitrarily trained in another seems a bit dishonest, and a bit desperate.
The QR&O have for a long time established the authority to move members between environments & occupations without the members' concent.  This is not new.  However, I do not know how well new recruits are briefed on this when they enroll.

Teddy Ruxpin said:
CSS training is controlled by the big purple machine.  They set the standards and control intake - not the Army.
Could it possibly be that the certain trade schools are so short on capacity, to process current back-logs & match current enrollment objectives, that the army could train their PATs as infantry & get a tour out of them before a spot becomes available on the original intended trade course?

I don't really know the CDS's intent, so I won't comment on it specifically.  Forced remusters could cause much discontent if done poorly, but that does not mean that a selective approach could not be made to work.  I'll watch and shoot on this.

x-grunt said:
I note there are 15,500 Army reservists. Largish numbers of those are R031.
We are tapping into the reserves for operations already.
HitorMiss said:
I hope not...Were sending barely up to speed Reg guys now, the last thing we need are a bunch under trained reservists that eat up more training time we don't have.
There are a large number of reservists already over there; filling combat arms jobs and doing an excellent job of it.

I like the idea of using reservists to bring all operational units up to strength, but I also think it needs to be an interim solution.
 
MCG said:
Quote from: HitorMiss on Today at 17:03:42
I hope not...Were sending barely up to speed Reg guys now, the last thing we need are a bunch under trained reservists that eat up more training time we don't have.
We are tapping into the reserves for operations already.There are a large number of reservists already over there; filling combat arms jobs and doing an excellent job of it.
And most of them knew enough to duck.  ;D

(sorry D, couldn't be helped  ;) )
 
MCG said:
.
We are tapping into the reserves for operations already.There are a large number of reservists already over there; filling combat arms jobs and doing an excellent job of it.
I'm not saying they aren't doing an amazing job, I have bled with them, what I am saying is that if were going to spend money on training for units lets spend the money where it counts which in my mind is the regs, I don't think anyone on here would argue that on avg Res F pers are under trained then their Reg counter parts (note under trained not poorly trained). I don't have an issue with say 3 year commitment to by the Res Pers where we are getting our bang out of the money we are putting into them.

MCG said:
.
I like the idea of using reservists to bring all operational units up to strength, but I also think it needs to be an interim solution.

I completely agree 100% it needs to be interim.
 
Journeyman said:
We are tapping into the reserves for operations already.There are a large number of reservists already over there; filling combat arms jobs and doing an excellent job of it.
And most of them knew enough to duck.  ;D

(sorry D, couldn't be helped  ;) )

Ha Ha Ha No worries JM can't be sorry for the truth  ;)
 
A little bit more detail (highlighted), shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act - http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409

Military fine tunes troop replacement in Afghanistan, says Cda's top soldier
Les Perrault, Canadian Press, 2 Oct 06
http://www.cp.org/premium/ONLINE/member/elxn_en/061002/p100201A.html

The Canadian military will refine the way troops are replaced in the Afghan mission to avoid troop shortages and exhaustion, Gen. Rick Hillier said Monday.

The chief of defence staff said the army needs to streamline the replacement process for troops who are hurt and killed to shorten the time from the current 21 to 30 days. "Our replacements coming from Canada have been slow coming in," Hillier told reporters at Kandahar Airfield as he completed a visit with troops.

"We're going to accelerate that program and have them here in a week."

Hillier says he also wants to shift recruits and troops in other trades into infantry on a voluntary basis.

"We need to make sure we have infantry to do the job," Hillier said.

"We want to ensure to the extent possible, and it won't be 100 per cent, that folks coming on this mission will be folks coming here for the first time."


Canada has committed troops to Afghanistan for the next 2 1/2 years and the army already has shortages in a number of trades, including the infantry.

The casualty rate for Canadian troops has accelerated dramatically since they moved into the restive Kandahar region over the past year.

While a couple hundred extra troops are already on their way to Afghanistan, Hillier said he is confident no more reinforcements are needed.

Thirty of the 37 Canadian military deaths on the mission have come since the move south. At least 153 have been injured so far in 2006, according to reports compiled by The Canadian Press. Many of those injured return to duty.

Faced with mounting casualties that have damaged the military readiness of some units, military officials have avoided giving out precise counts of injured in recent incidents.

Canada has about 2,200 soldiers in Afghanistan, but only about 800 of them are frontline troops.

Hillier said the army has shifted soldiers from other trades into infantry before. Armoured troops were retrained for the infantry for the Bosnia mission in the 1990s.

"We have to make sure the men and women who are bearing the brunt of the stress and operations here, that we have lots of them and we're not turning to the same folks," Hillier said.
 
Hillier says he also wants to shift recruits and troops in other trades into infantry on a voluntary basis.

That's better....

Hillier said the army has shifted soldiers from other trades into infantry before. Armoured troops were retrained for the infantry for the Bosnia mission in the 1990s.

True, but (IIRC) this wasn't by remustering individual soldiers.  Instead, squadrons performed the function of infantry - we dubbed them "panzergrenadiers" (heh) - in a comparatively benign environment.  There was no suggestion that the squadrons actually fight as infantry, unless in an inextremis situation.
 
Teddy Ruxpin said:
True, but (IIRC) this wasn't by remustering individual soldiers.  Instead, squadrons performed the function of infantry

SFOR Roto1 saw the Strats re-role Recce Sqn into an Inf Coy. They did very good work in Drvar, which was arguably one of our more troublesome areas.

The down-side is that they then took a Cougar Sqn and said, "you're now Recce." They knew how to drive the truck, but they were absolutely fucking abysmal er, perhaps not up to the standard one expects from qualified recce troops.
 
milnewstbay said:
A little bit more detail (highlighted), shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act - http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409

Military fine tunes troop replacement in Afghanistan, says Cda's top soldier
Hillier says he also wants to shift recruits and troops in other trades into infantry on a voluntary basis.

So if a armoured crewman wants to go infantry would he still not have to go through BPSO,battle school and the whole OT process?This would take up to 2 years.Are they planning on an accelerated course?Is anything put into place to get people from other trades into the infantry?

It leaves a lot of questions unanswered IMHO.
 
Guess you missed this:

milnewstbay said:
Hillier said the army has shifted soldiers from other trades into infantry before. Armoured troops were retrained for the infantry for the Bosnia mission in the 1990s.

"We have to make sure the men and women who are bearing the brunt of the stress and operations here, that we have lots of them and we're not turning to the same folks," Hillier said.

As has been mentioned before, Armour and Artillery Units have been 're-roled' as Infantry to do Tours.  This seems to be more of what he is talking about, than OTing other Trades to Infantry.
 
Yes but who would they hit up would be the question.Maybe some naval types?Everyone elses tempo seems to be quite high as well.What trade can they rape?

CANFORGENS??
 
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