Dutch ships and designs and the possibilities for Canada

[Karel Doorman]

Thanks,Mark for the read,i've seen  the pictures 

gr,walter.l. leever.

 

[Karel Doorman]

Again a bit of (former)Dutch history:

Last gun cruiser in the world decommisioned.

Peruvian Navy decommissions ‘Almirante Grau’, picks frigate ‘Montero’ as new flagship

The Peruvian Navy decommissioned its long-time flagship B.A.P. Almirante Grau after 45 years of service during a ceremony on September 26.

B.A.P. Almirante Grau was replaced as fleet flagship by B.A.P. Montero, a Carvajal-class frigate built by Servicio Industrial de la Marina (SIMA) and commissioned into the navy in 1984.

On the occasion, B.A.P. Montero was renamed to B.A.P. Almirante Grau as flagships of the Peruvian Navy bear the name of famous Peruvian Admiral Miguel Grau Seminario.

During the ceremony, the Peruvian Navy flag was lowered for the last time from the previous B.A.P. Almirante Grau, a former Dutch Navy De Zeven Provinciën-class cruiser bought by Peru in 1973. Before starting service in the Peruvian Navy, B.A.P. Almirante Grau was known as HNLMS De Ruyter (C801) and was commissioned into the Dutch Navy in 1953.

The former B.A.P. Almirante Grau was also the world’s last gun cruiser in active service.


http://www.debakstafel.nl/uploads/1/4/1/3/14135904/4242714_1_orig.jpg

http://www.debakstafel.nl/uploads/1/4/1/3/14135904/467882_1_orig.jpg

 

[jollyjacktar]

A good and proper looking warship.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

A good and proper looking warship.

That would have lasted a whole of five minutes in a modern shooting war, like the ARA General Belgrano, of the Argentine Navy.

We disposed of our own HMCS QUEBEC and HMCS ONTARIO in 1956 and 1958 respectively because they were obsolete even then as far as modern warfare was concerned.

 

[MilEME09]

That would have lasted a whole of five minutes in a modern shooting war, like the ARA General Belgrano, of the Argentine Navy.

We disposed of our own HMCS QUEBEC and HMCS ONTARIO in 1956 and 1958 respectively because they were obsolete even then as far as modern warfare was concerned.

The concept of a large warship meant to engage other large ships is pretty well dead, dido for the battleship and having the need for shore bombardment. Mind you with new technologies like railguns in the process of being viable for warships, a nuclear power assault ship with a railgun would probably provide enough cover for landing forces if there ever was a need for it.

 

[Karel Doorman]

That would have lasted a whole of five minutes in a modern shooting war, like the ARA General Belgrano, of the Argentine Navy.

We disposed of our own HMCS QUEBEC and HMCS ONTARIO in 1956 and 1958 respectively because they were obsolete even then as far as modern warfare was concerned.

True,but still the end of an era.(and it looks like a "real" warship with all the guns.  [  ),but still outdated now,ship was 65 years old,so truly a "grand"old lady.There are plans to keep her as a "museum"ship.(Chili)

There's also interest from her 1st owner to do so.(we)

 

[jollyjacktar]

That would have lasted a whole of five minutes in a modern shooting war, like the ARA General Belgrano, of the Argentine Navy.

We disposed of our own HMCS QUEBEC and HMCS ONTARIO in 1956 and 1958 respectively because they were obsolete even then as far as modern warfare was concerned.

But of course.  Much like a Spitfire or similar mechanical device of the era.  Doesn't mean they're not beautiful in appearance.  I still remember being taken aboard one of the steamers in Esquimalt when l was 12 or so for a tour by my cousin's husband who was XO.  I was most disappointed at the lack of guns in a modern ship.  Missiles just aren't as sexy to my eyes to this day.  As much as l love the appearance of a classic car l wouldn't want one as l know how well the meat inside fares in a serious collision.  For that matter, I wouldn't be keen to get into serious naval engagements today even in a CPF that post HCM FELEX as l know what one missile or torpedo would do to us if it got through.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

That would have lasted a whole of five minutes in a modern shooting war, like the ARA General Belgrano, of the Argentine Navy.

We disposed of our own HMCS QUEBEC and HMCS ONTARIO in 1956 and 1958 respectively because they were obsolete even then as far as modern warfare was concerned.

Sunk by a torpedo almost as old as it was as I recall

 

[Karel Doorman]

As stated by me earlier,Thales Netherlands is a world leader in the field of radar development.

Unrivaled Performance by Thales SMART-L Multi Mission Radar during Formidable Shield 2017


https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2017/october-2017-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/5629-unrivaled-performance-by-thales-smart-l-multi-mission-radar-during-formidable-shield-2017.html

 

[AlexanderM]

As stated by me earlier,Thales Netherlands is a world leader in the field of radar development.

Unrivaled Performance by Thales SMART-L Multi Mission Radar during Formidable Shield 2017


https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2017/october-2017-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/5629-unrivaled-performance-by-thales-smart-l-multi-mission-radar-during-formidable-shield-2017.html

Not only do I hope that at least our destroyers are equipped with this system but I also wonder if this technology could be used in upgrading the NORAD system. A few of those spread across northern Canada, and one on the West Coast, might not be a bad idea.

 

[Karel Doorman]

Maritime RNLN Van Hengel-Spengler Award 2017 is a maritime/naval price for the best innovation into operational systems.

Nice little upgrades for the submarines,the benefit of having a very dedicated sub community/crew.

https://youtu.be/R5am9aSg3z0

https://youtu.be/6_OkL2uZAwc?list=PLR6PLK_s9CGTNgTfyTP4mvLEfoPsra7eg

and here's another one,will save up to 4% in fuell costs for the new frigates.

https://youtu.be/NkQii8sO6r8?list=PLR6PLK_s9CGTNgTfyTP4mvLEfoPsra7eg

 

[Karel Doorman]

Thales SMART-L radar proves BMD capability during Formidable Shield 2017
(Dit zet NL wel weer op de kaart, zowel op het gebied van radar als ook haar schepen en de capaciteiten)

Thales’s SMART-L radar detected and tracked a Terrier Oriole ballistic missile well outside the earth’s atmosphere. This unique achievement was the highlight in Formidable Shield 2017, an integrated air and missile defence exercise organized by the US Navy’s Sixth Fleet in the Hebrides test range in the Atlantic Ocean.

Admiral Rob Kramer of the Royal Netherlands Navy tweeted: “Technology triumph and top innovation by Thales and the Royal Netherlands Navy. This helps us keep safe in turbulent times.”

On the 15th of October, the ballistic missile was launched from the Hebrides coast. It reached an altitude of 300 km and a velocity of more than 3 km/second. Thales’s SMART-L radar on board of HNLMS De Ruyter detected and tracked the ballistic missile and made the data real-time available to a US Navy’s Aegis-class ship, via the designated NATO communications network. The quality of the data was high enough to be used for a Launch on Remote. The SMART-L radar on HNLMS De Ruyter, was temporarily modified to include the latest technology that Thales has recently developed for Ballistic Missile Defence purposes. This technology is used in the SMART-L Multi Mission radar that Thales is building for the four Royal Netherlands Navy’s Air Defence and Command Frigates and for two land-based versions for the Royal Netherlands Air Force.

Gerben Edelijn, CEO of Thales in the Netherlands: “This exercise proves that Thales has developed a radar system that is capable of timely detecting a ballistic missile and generating reliable data to enable the elimination of the threat. Such a sensor is an essential asset for armed forces in the protection of their countries’ population and high-value objects.”

Parallel to the events in the Atlantic, the SMART-L Multi Mission on the test tower in Hengelo again detected and tracked the ballistic missile.

https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2017/november-2017-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/5708-video-thales-smart-l-radar-proves-bmd-capability-during-formidable-shield-2017.html

 

[AlexanderM]

We absolutely need to have the above system on our destroyers and several land based installations might not be a bad idea, wouldn't take very many to cover all of Canada, that is the north and the coasts.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

I'm frankly shocked by the lack of urgency to get this defensive measure deployed on the West Coast.  I can see Little Kim taking a shot at us first as we don't have our own nukes to respond. 

 

[MarkOttawa]

What RCN CSCs should have--missile defence radar and newest Raytheon Standard missiles:

Could SM-3 Interceptor [and SM-6] Take On Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles?
http://aviationweek.com/defense/could-sm-3-interceptor-take-intercontinental-ballistic-missiles

SM-6 Cleared for International Sale; Australia, Japan, Korea Could Be Early Customers
https://news.usni.org/2017/01/10/sm-6-cleared-international-sale-australia-japan-korea-early-customers

Aegis Intercept Test
https://www.csis.org/analysis/aegis-intercept-test

Mark
Ottawa

 

[jmt18325]

I'm frankly shocked by the lack of urgency to get this defensive measure deployed on the West Coast.  I can see Little Kim taking a shot at us first as we don't have our own nukes to respond.

They don't even consider us to be their enemy.  Why would they shoot at us?

 

[Kirkhill]

They were aiming for Seattle?

 

[Underway]

Its a bit of cry wolf thinking NK is going to hit us with anything, yes wolves are out there.  No they are not coming for our sheep.  I agree that a missile defense capability is important if only to ensure that we meet some NORAD continental defense requirements.  We don't want to be the weak link and make the US vulnerable to attack through us.  However, NK isn't going to hit us.  It's going to hit Japan, the South or US bases in Guam etc...  even continental US is from a geostrategic point of view on the lower end of the targeting priority.  Canada isn't even on the list.  Shrieking about it makes one look overly alarmist.  If one wants a strategic BMD capability there are better more solid arguments out there.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

I think underestimating the threat that NK is becoming, is very short-sighted.

From a capability standpoint, most reports are indicating he's less than 18-months from being able to hit British Columbia with either a tactical nuke or biological.

Strategically, if he's looking for a country to make an example of, in terms of his willingness to kill innocents to maintain power, not sure there's a better target. 

*- Close to United States (largest trading partner and common language)
*- Part of NATO
*- Considered part of "the Western Coalition"
*- No nukes to respond
*- And culturally, part of our population would likely rush to blame the United States for having instigated the launch.

Other potential targets:
*- China? - NK would look like surface of Mars when China finished with them.
*- Russia - Similar
*- India - Similar
*- United States - Similar
*- Japan - Currently non-nuclear, but not thinking that will last much longer.
*- Vietnam - Non-nuclear, but wouldn't prove much and Russia is more likely to counterstrike.
*- Indonesia - Also non-nuclear, but wouldn't really prove much.
*- Philippines - Similar to Philippines....wouldn't prove much.

The only other relatively 'ideal' target for NK would be Australia and assuming NK could potentially be in possession of 20+ missiles capable of those ranges within the next 3-5 years, that should be a giant warning sign that our government needs to step up and get the procurement plan in place now....not AFTER the newest missile type with nuclear tip has gone operational.

 

[YZT580]

NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT WE HAVE NEVER SIGNED A PEACE AGREEMENT WITH NK.