TCBF said:
""Contrast that to having one officer, one 2I/C and two section commanders in a 40 candidate training platoon in St Jean, or the sadly typical situation in Meaford where a section commander has a 13-16 man section to deal with alone (and without very much in the way of training support, training aids etc. The centre still hasn't figgfigured why NC Os avoid being tasked to work there). Couple that with clueless people writing the CTP (i.e. Steel Badger's story of taking out the forward and backward action: how can you clear stoppages or even strip and assemble the weapon if you have no idea of what is happening inside?), and the root of the slovenly dress deportment and attitudes of present day soldiers isn't too hard to find."
I was a Squad NCO ( 40 men max) Trs Sgt, and Pl Comd (160 max, though I think my biggest was 119) in Cornwallis - 1984 1986, and a Platoon Commander (60 Max), SLC Syndicate Leader and BOTC Platoon Staff in St Jean - 1996 -1999.
The Grad Pde was actually better on the St. Jean than it was in Cornwallis, in most respects. What shocked me was how little drill the officers received in drill, including Sword Drill.
Cornwallis, however, made up for it in more weapons training and a longer course 10 weeks vice eight). When I left St. Jean some good planning was going into improving the course, but that seems to have been negated by the "new" military law, as well as philosophy regarding recruiting injured recruits, re-injuring them again (who knew?), and then keeping them around two years while the system gets up the balls to release them.
...
Tom
I'm showing my age again, and my failing memory.
As I remember recruit training in the Regimental Depot (an established unit with a CO (major) and a permanent staff, a posting to the Depot was considered a 'plum' job and an honour â “ never happened to me!) we were formed into platoons with three sections each. We had a platoon commander who, I think â “ I cannot remember ours, not at all â “ was
attached from the battalion (we, in my platoon, were all
earmarked for 2RCR), the platoon sergeant and three section commanders (corporals) were all Depot staff â “ excellent soldiers who were specially, additionally trained to teach recruits, Then we had three lance corporals, section 2i/cs â “ all from the 2nd Battalion because, if I remember correctly, we were told, several times, that ten recruits was too many for one corporal â “ five or fewer was about right.
I think recruit training was 24 weeks â “ three roughly equal phases and it was followed, immediately by the Group 1 LI (leading infantryman) course â “ also run by the Depot but there were, if memory serves, a couple of Guards and Black Watch NCOs to help maintain
quality control across the infantry, I think. (Art Johnson: can you help, my memories are a bit blurred (a stroke does that) and I may be getting recruit and basic officer training mixed up.)
We had about 30 soldiers in our platoon; I think about 25 of us were fresh of the street (because, according to our sergeant: the garbage cans were all frozen over) and the rest had been
back-squaded because they had failed their first try but were thought to have potential to pass with a second try â “ we lost quite a few, maybe six or eight in the first few (four or five) weeks, just after the first physical standards test, we picked up a few more guys
back-squaded from the platoon ahead of us and I think we finished with about 20 to 25 fellows, almost all of us went to 2RCR and remained pretty firm friends for a long, long time.
It was a good system â “ expensive, but it worked. Maybe 24 weeks was too long, maybe we old guys weren't as smart as you young guys.
All that to say that I still believe that recruit (and trade group 1, or TQ3 or whatever it's called now) training is the most important training we do, followed by junior NCO training, basic officer training, senior NCO training and so on. I would like to see infantry training, from recruit to sergeant in the
exclusive hands of the infantry â “ ditto armour, artillery and so on,
within the army. I would like all sailors be trained, from recruit to petty officer by the navy: bos'ns and electronics technicians and cooks and clerks, too. Ditto for the air force, Someone else mentioned (here, this thread?) that the air force are highly professional/serious about the things that matter: too true, and they used to be equally serious and fairly, moderately 'smart' too, when air force NCOs had both pride and a stake in the Air Force, as an institution. Sometimes efficiency isn't very effective.
What I'm advocating would be very expensive. We complained, a few decades back, because Depot
robbed us of people because training establishments are never manned at a high enough level â “ just ask them! Maybe all arms, regional (PPCLI/LdSH(RC) â “ R22R/12RBC â “ RCR/RCD)
battle schools are a better answer.
All free advice has the same value.
