Depart with Dignity

garb811

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I've got beefs with the DWD program as it currently is.

The basic premise is sound. But...

I've seen a member be presented their Certificate framed, which is expensive on its own due to the irregular size of the thing, plus a custom made shadow box, including duplicate medals, and a $300 tool chest, all paid for by donations because that member was well liked.

I've seen someone ask for a mess dinner, and get it.

I've seen someone decide to they wanted a down home "dinner dance", and get it, with people only being told upon arrival that there was a cover charge to cover the cost of the band, on top of the cost of the meal.

I've seen someone ask that they not be given a DWD and then be threatened with being charged for AWOL when they didn't show up, even after having made it very clear to the entire chain of command of the unit that if something was held, they just weren't going to come.

And perhaps even worse than NOT getting a DWD, I've witnessed a soldier receive their Certificate of Service unframed with the letters in a binder, simply because they were a former member of the unit who had been at JPSU for 3+  years and people refused to kick in any money for someone they "didn't know". Nobody under the rank of Sgt even bothered to go to the luncheon and it was the CO and RSM who covered a good chunk of the cost of the lunch for the member and his family because there wasn't even enough money for that. To say the member was upset and embarrassed is an understatement.

It's nice that someone in Ottawa sat down and came up with a bunch of great ideas on how to suitably commemorate someone and their family, but when all of those bright ideas cost money and the only way to pay for that is to go around the unit, hat in hand, all that is happening is some folks are being set up to find out how much people really think of them compared to others on what is supposed to be a day they are being honoured.
 

daftandbarmy

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garb811 said:
I've seen someone ask that they not be given a DWD and then be threatened with being charged for AWOL when they didn't show up, even after having made it very clear to the entire chain of command of the unit that if something was held, they just weren't going to come.

Was this in the 18th century?  :facepalm:
 

Halifax Tar

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I think the problem is that they are not a publically funded evolution with a standard set. 

I ran into this at former unit.  One dude retired and got a 3 day social event, the next dude retires and got a handshake and a binder.  Maybe they both got what they wanted ?  But I know which one was more in the "clique". 

When it's all left up to donations you will find varying degrees of eagerness to participate donate.
 

Haggis

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ArmyRick said:
Mr Devine, I am not just referring to the DWD at this point but pretty much the whole release process was a gong show.

With the exception of my DWD and my kit return at my support base, my release process went fairly well.  Sadly, anecdotal evidence suggests that I was the exception.

ArmyRick said:
Its about correcting something that isn't happening.

Lessons learned are not really applied or passed on.  Using both the release process and DAG process as examples, you'd think that by now we'd have this down to an art.  But we still can't expeditiously release someone most of the time and when we DAG someone for Roto 10, we're actually DAGing them for Roto 0 but for the tenth time.
 

garb811

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daftandbarmy said:
Was this in the 18th century?  :facepalm:
Close, 2003, just after the first iteration of the DWD came out. 16 years of formally trying and we still can't get it right for the member.
 

The Bread Guy

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Jarnhamar said:
Our obsession with taking the next bound to take the next leap has us forgetting that CAF members are people and not just numbers.
That right there -- what looks good on a spreadsheet way up high often doesn't translate to front-line success.

The execution of this "rules to remind people that folks should be recognized for their service when they leave (as long as it's not out of the public purse)" reminds me of the attached.
 

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mariomike

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Halifax Tar said:
When it's all left up to donations you will find varying degrees of eagerness to participate donate.

Perhaps makes a difference if one suspects they will never meet again.

eg: The member plans to retire to another area of Canada.

Locally, you know you are going to be looking them in the eye at retiree functions and funerals for the rest of your life.

Possibly more of an incentive to cough up a donation when they "pull the pin".
 

daftandbarmy

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Is it OK if I request my DWD to take place on the summit of Mt Logan?

I'll grudgingly accept a helicopter ride down after the team of AMOs gets me up there :)

 

brihard

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My unit is behind by about 12-13 DWDs for SNCOs/WOs alone. The plan is to run a few 'bulk' DWDs through the Sgts/WOs' mess over the winter. Although it's a unit responsibility, not a mess one, the mess has taken the lead on DWDs for its members. Or at least they say so; we'll see.
 
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stellarpanther

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Brihard said:
My unit is behind by about 12-13 DWDs for SNCOs/WOs alone. The plan is to run a few 'bulk' DWDs through the Sgts/WOs' mess over the winter. Although it's a unit responsibility, not a mess one, the mess has taken the lead on DWDs for its members. Or at least they say so; we'll see.

Are DWD's just mandated for releases or are they also for postings?  I've been to a couple bulk ones for postings and didn't like them because it seemed like something they had to do rather than something they wanted to do for the mbr.  On one of them it was a golf day and found out that the guy's paid for their own golfing and lunch.  One of them commented that it left him with a negative view of the unit.
 

dapaterson

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stellarpanther said:
Are DWD's just mandated for releases or are they also for postings?  I've been to a couple bulk ones for postings and didn't like them because it seemed like something they had to do rather than something they wanted to do for the mbr.  On one of them it was a golf day and found out that the guy's paid for their own golfing and lunch.  One of them commented that it left him with a negative view of the unit.

DwD is mandated for release only; unit departures are local initiatives. 
 

Eye In The Sky

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The posting thing is called a mug-out;  a DWD usually (going from memory from a few years ago) also entails the member getting their Certificate of Service, and other similar documents, presented to them.

Mug-outs, done right, are usually a good time and don't have to be big expensive events.
 
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stellarpanther

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Eye In The Sky said:
The posting thing is called a mug-out;  a DWD usually (going from memory from a few years ago) also entails the member getting their Certificate of Service, and other similar documents, presented to them.

Mug-outs, done right, are usually a good time and don't have to be big expensive events.

I've seen mug-out's but only for CWO's or Snr O's and they've actually called them that.  When it's a lower ranking person, I've heard them simply called a luncheon.  What I've seen for others is normally a luncheon where they are given a unit certificate but if the mbr has a high enough rank they seem to get gifts etc but the Jr ranking person usually just gets a lunch and a certificate, sometime no certificate.

 

Halifax Tar

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I see allot of positive and important things with DWDs.  I think the program needs some work, but it an effort we should strain to keep up.

As for "mug outs" maybe I am alone but I couldnt give 2 $&its about this.  I have been to so many units, ships and bases its really not a big deal.  But I did see the Army make a bigger deal out of during my time there.  Just let me clear out and leave, I will say goodbye to those I want too.
 

Navy_Pete

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stellarpanther said:
I've seen mug-out's but only for CWO's or Snr O's and they've actually called them that.  When it's a lower ranking person, I've heard them simply called a luncheon.  What I've seen for others is normally a luncheon where they are given a unit certificate but if the mbr has a high enough rank they seem to get gifts etc but the Jr ranking person usually just gets a lunch and a certificate, sometime no certificate.

From the various other spots I've worked over the years a luncheon is pretty normal for office workers, with a beer after work at the couple of manual labour jobs I was at long enough. Seemed to depend on the turnover rate.

Think the basic idea of a few well wishes to send you on your way is good, but sometimes goes way over the top.  Makes sense for those kind landmark of career positions (ship's captain, cox'n, etc), but otherwise kind of nice to just have something small with the people that actually work with them day to day.

Have organized a few DWDs for retiring Chiefs at the 25-30 years of time in range, and it was worth the effort. Sometimes took a while to get the certificates, so for the short notice one they followed along later, but the unit I was at was tracking the progress on all of that once they put in for their retirement and would have gotten shot if I dropped the ball on it. Hard to imagine being at a spot where that's overlooked entirely, and seems like a basic lack of respect from the CoC to it's personnel and their contributions. The divisional system boils down to being responsible for the people below you in the chain, and nothing has kept me awake more than the feeling that I somehow dropped the ball for one of my people.
 

Eye In The Sky

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When I was with LRP, each year the Sqn mug-out was a Sqn event and pretty much a no-fly day.  Sometimes they had it at the mess, others at the Wing golf clubhouse.  Sqn members would be mugged out by their immediate superior who'd give a short speech on the accomplishments of the member, any funny stories and then indicate where they were heading off to.  Following that, the last part of someone's mugout usually involved chugging a beverage while the traditional song was sung by the rest of the Sqn.  Usually involved a BBQ, etc too.  This would be for each mbr posted out, so it was not just a 10 minute event.  Great way to spend a Friday in the later part of June!

All in all, a really good time for all. 
 

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I have been told that there are often big happy parties at units just after I am posted out.  Is that the same thing?  ;D
 

Eye In The Sky

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PPCLI Guy said:
I have been told that there are often big happy parties at units just after I am posted out.  Is that the same thing?  ;D

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh..... :Tin-Foil-Hat:

Ya!  totally...err...totally the same thing!
 

Haggis

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PPCLI Guy said:
I have been told that there are often big happy parties at units just after I am posted out.  Is that the same thing?  ;D

The defining question is are the parties held before or after your COS date?
 
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