OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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In the late 70s the media was reporting that soldiers were going on welfare etc to make ends meet. I reckon every few years this happens.
exgunnertdo said:I know it's a few posts ago, but on the relationship between the Cpl's salary and the average for the community. I couldn't help noting that the average wage is higher than a Cpl's in a few communities (I was Googling last night because of this story and a lengthy string of comments on a Facebook post). In fact, the median income in Canada as a whole is higher than a Cpl's
Canada - 72,240
Kingston - 79,140
NCR (QC side) - 84,410
NCR (ON side) - 97,010
Winnipeg - 74,040
Yet in Toronto, with a pretty high cost of living (especially on the shelter side of it), the median income is only 69,740
Source - http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/famil107a-eng.htm
Kingston, NCR and Winnipeg don't get PLD. Alberta has a very low tax rate compared to the rest of Canada, so those posted to Cold Lake are getting a bonus that the rest of us don't get (since I am told that one of the reasons the maritimes gets PLD is because of the high taxes).
I realize the cost of living is high in Cold Lake. But a Cpl in Cold Lake is making a similar wage in relation to the "median" income in other places in Canada. And those places don't a dime of PLD.
Also note that the salaries referred to in the earlier article, as well as the Stats Can numbers are family income, not individual salaries. So we are comparing apples to a different variety of apples. Spousal employment is a whole other topic though.
(edit to fix typo)
dapaterson said:So an entry level rank is below the median income. Is this the Lake Wobegon Armed Forces, where everyone is above average?
In addition, on the apples vs other types of fruits discussion, CAF members receive benefits such as comprehensive medical for themselves, the Public Service medical plan for their dependents, and one of the richest pension plans in the country; if we want to discuss compensation, we need to look at the full package.
Halifax Tar said:It really comes down to the cost of living. You can't compare Kingston to Cold Lake to Halifax to Yellowknife. They have very different sets of circumstances that have a knock on effects with the local area's cost of living.
As well the family income is a great way to look at this as it shows the median house hold income of which this Cpl belongs. You will see his sign says "Posted to Cold Lake with a family please spare change" or words to that effect.
Halifax Tar said:You view Cpl as an entry level rank ?
How do you see upping the PLD for those posted to Cold Lake having a reverse effect on the CAF benefits plan ?
Perhaps PLD should be based on salary and only available to those below a certain income level.
exgunnertdo said:True on the cost of living being hard to compare - my comparison was only because of the earlier posts about the fact that the Cpl's salary is so much below the average for the area. The implication being that the Cpl can't afford what the "average" family can afford in Cold Lake. The Cpl in Ottawa and Kingston is in the same situation, minus the benefit of PLD, no PST, and low provincial income tax.
My point is only that I don't think a Cpl in Cold Lake is in a significantly different position than a Cpl in other parts of Canada. A Cpl might have to tighten their belt a bit, but I don't see where the poverty argument is valid.
dapaterson said:Yes, it's an entry level rank. Cpl is automatic in 4 years, often granted after 3. Not a rank tied to senior leadership or management or high level skillsets. I would argue that a wider range of IPCs for Cpls should be in place, but that could result in pay / rank inversions (say, a 10 year Cpl might make more than a junior Sgt).
(For officers, OCdt/2Lt/Lt have all become entry ranks, and Capt as well, which is unfortunate. Lt should be the equivalent of Cpl - trained and employable, with merit-based promotion to all ranks beyond. At $74K/year, Capt should not be treated as an automatic promotion)
PLD needs a top to bottom overhaul. Everyone seems to think that their cost of living is above average, a mathematical impossibility. But any change will see winners and losers, hence the reluctance to change it & make even more folks upset (don't forget, the Treasury Board is made up of cabinet ministers).
I would not be surprised to see PLD adapted and changed to be scaled accoring to rank / income. It would be a popular move, if not a fair one.
Jungle said:I visited Cold Lake for a few days recently, and I noticed a lot of shiny new pick up trucks, snowmobiles, ATVs, fishing boats... sometimes all in the same PMQ driveway.
Jim Seggie said:What it means is that those toys aren't free. They have to be paid for, and if you're busking because of your toys in driveway, your priorities are mixed up.
This IS NOT to say this Cpl has done that.
Jim Seggie said:What it means is that those toys aren't free. They have to be paid for, and if you're busking because of your toys in driveway, your priorities are mixed up.
Jim Seggie said:What it means is that those toys aren't free. They have to be paid for, and if you're busking because of your toys in driveway, your priorities are mixed up.
This IS NOT to say this Cpl has done that.
dapaterson said:So an entry level rank is below the median income. Is this the Lake Wobegon Armed Forces, where everyone is above average?
In addition, on the apples vs other types of fruits discussion, CAF members receive benefits such as comprehensive medical for themselves, the Public Service medical plan for their dependents, and one of the richest pension plans in the country; if we want to discuss compensation, we need to look at the full package.
Chief Stoker said:I don't agree with any military member going to the media. At the end of the day he felt strongly enough to do what he did and will face the consequences. Perhaps this bring to light whats going on at Cold Lake and improve things for pers in hardship postings.
E.R. Campbell said:And I just heard a rumour that the Army Commander (LGen Hainse) has issued a memo (e-mail?) to his staff (the whole Army?) saying just that: don't talk to the media.