CDN/US Covid-related political discussion

[Bruce Monkhouse]

The generousity of other countries pharmaceutical companies doesn't redeem the disaster the Federal Govt has been for this entire time. But nice whitewash...

 

[Altair]

The generousity of other countries pharmaceutical companies doesn't redeem the disaster the Federal Govt has been for this entire time. But nice whitewash...

3rd amongst G20 nations is not good enough for you?

Where should we be?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Not dependant on the generosity of other countries pharmaceutical companies??

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

And isn't actually giving the vaccine the victory of the province's??

 

[Altair]

And isn't actually giving the vaccine the victory of the province's??

Procurement is a federal victory, administration is a provincial one.

Can't have one without the other.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

So if the Feds had done their job before we became a charity case we'd be number one?
Dare to dream Altair, dare to dream.

 

[Altair]

Not dependant on the generosity of other countries pharmaceutical companies??

We haven't had homegrown vaccine manufacturing capabilities for many years, so we were always going to need to buy it.

So being 3rd (THIRD!) amongst G20 nations without a single one being produced in Canada to date is amazing

 

[Altair]

So if the Feds had done their job before we became a charity case we'd be number one?
Dare to dream Altair, dare to dream.

Lol, if you want to compare Canada to the global superpower that is the USA, or the UK who has a a domestic manufacturing capability you can be my guest.

But I think that if Canada finishes a solid 3rd behind those 2 in the G20 that's a massive win. And if you want to look down on that performance, again, be my guest, but going from near dead last to 3rd over the course of 2 months is massive. It's not like the other G20 nations are not trying.

 

[Good2Golf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1377648035006713857

To all those who still think we are failing.

Au contraire. We’re #3...at doing things halfway...

 

[Altair]

Au contraire. We’re #3...at doing things halfway...

I don't understand.

People were mad in January that we were last in the G20.

And now people are mad that we are 3rd.

People were mad that we would only be done vaccinating in September.

Now people are mad we are going to be done come July.

At what point does it become about the hating the federal government rather than hating the actual performance?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Not stealing a truck today doesn't make the truck you stole yesterday any less of a crime.

 

[Altair]

Not stealing a truck today doesn't make the truck you stole yesterday any less of a crime.

This is more like stumbling out of the starting blocks but recovering and finishing in 3rd with the bronze medal still being a failure.

(When we were never going to finish above 3rd to begin with)

Or, lets put it this way. There are 20 nations in the G20. We are 3rd right now. And yet we are failures? So 18 nations in the G20 are failures?

 

[Mick]

And isn't actually giving the vaccine the victory of the province's??

I'll buy that. But that also means that a failure to adequately distribute the vaccine rests with the provinces.

 

[Mick]

So if the Feds had done their job before we became a charity case we'd be number one?
Dare to dream Altair, dare to dream.

I agree, it is shameful that successive Canadian governments of all political stripes have allowed our ability to domestically produce vaccines to wither and die.

I'm no fan of this government, but other than single-handedly standing up a domestic production capability from virtually scratch, what do you suggest the government should have done other than ordering millions of various vaccines?

 

[Mills Bomb]

Lets put this another way.

5,643,587 vaccines administered in Canada. 3,451,334 outside of Ontario. 7,107,969 vaccines delivered to the provinces. 4,287,474 outside of Ontario.

So using your logic, 3,451,334>2,192,253 and 4,287,474>2,820,495

So running the numbers,

Canada, 3,451,334/4,287,474=80.4 percent.

Ontario, 2,192,253/2,820,485=77.7 percent

Technically, using your logic, distributing 3.45 million vaccines should be a harder task than administering 2.1m, but across Canada those 3.4 outside of Ontario have done that harder job better.

And they are doing it without trying to blame the federal government for lack of supply.

And pray Ontario gets better at this as they go along, as the amount of vaccines Canada gets, and by extension, Ontario gets, is about to get much larger. If they think administering 2.8 million vaccines since december is hard, wait until they are getting a million a week.

Hi Altair,

You're still not understanding the concept. Your math doesn't factor scaling.

You are trying to find a way to make it look like Ontario is doing badly however they are doing just fine compared to other provinces given the circumstances and challenges of being our largest province.

Ontario is within 1% of Quebec, a substantially smaller province by population, in percentage of population vaccinated. That's really good!

You need to understand it's more difficult to scale a vaccine rollout in a larger province, if you can't factor that into the argument it shows you're ignorant to working on projects of this size or the concept of scaling any business or health care system. There's just no way to debate this in a fair way if you don't factor that in.

By your logic the winner of the provinces so far is Northwest Territories as they have vaccinated the largest percentage of their population. I'm sure NWT is doing a great job but just because they have vaccinated the largest percentage of their population doesn't mean that their rollout was the "best" or "better" than Ontario's. They had a different task at hand and you can't compare them to Ontario, as most likely they are BOTH doing a good job with what they have.

You also speak of Ontario not administering the doses they have on hand, but they have administered the highest percentage of doses given to them aside from Quebec which is literally at the heart of this crisis. The information is right here: COVID-19 Tracker Canada - Vaccination Tracker

You're trying make it sound like Ontario is doing "badly" by using very basic math that doesn't factor scale at all. Your argument about them not using what they have on hand is also flawed because they are #2 in percentage of doses delivered administered, all those other provinces you point out as being "better" have actually administered a smaller percentage of what they received except or Quebec which is just slightly ahead. But please go look at the vaccine tracker yourself, you will see plane and day Ontario is doing just fine and if anyone needs more doses from the feds it's both them and Quebec as those two provinces have most exhausted the percentage of doses received.

Now please, if you want to keep discussing this, do a bit of research on scaling. You can throw on episode of Dragon's Den or Shark Tank if you want a basic understanding as they often explain to small business owners looking to grow the challenges of taking something small and turning it big. Just because somewhere like NWT is doing awesome at vaccinating NWT does not mean those same people or the same strategy would work for Ontario.

 

[Good2Golf]

I don't understand.

People were mad in January that we were last in the G20.

And now people are mad that we are 3rd.

People were mad that we would only be done vaccinating in September.

Now people are mad we are going to be done come July.

At what point does it become about the hating the federal government rather than hating the actual performance?

Did you even read the Chart’s legend? It’s only for single doses administered, not complete vaccination.

Add to that Canada’s unscientific, arbitrary extension of the inter-dose waiting period to 1/3 year from 3-4 weeks, and one really has to question just how much a success it is to be crowing about.

 

[Altair]

Did you even read the Chart’s legend? It’s only for single doses administered, not complete vaccination.

Add to that Canada’s unscientific, arbitrary extension of the inter-dose waiting period to 1/3 year from 3-4 weeks, and one really has to question just how much a success it is to be crowing about.

Every country is doing things differently,the UK for example isn't following the 3 week delivery schedule,but they are considered a success story.

That said, in terms of getting that first dose in, Canada is 3rd in the G20. I guess we can wait for data to come out to see what the rates are for 2nd doses( not counting AZ which is a 1 shot, same for J&J) where applicable. But with the data we have right now, 3rd from last is a success.

 

[Mills Bomb]

Go look at the dates I posted.

February 17th, 34,191 unused vaccines.

Feb 25th, 61,295 unused vaccines.

Mar 2nd, 176,264 unused vaccines.

Mar 9th, 143,212 unused vaccines.

Mar 15th, 265,452 unused vaccines.

Mar 17th, 330,001 unused vaccines.

Mar 22nd, 227,095 unused vaccines.

Mar 24th, 570,815 unused vaccines.

Mar 29th, 321,930 unused vaccines.

COVID-19 Tracker Canada - Provincial Vaccination Tracker

Near real-time vaccination data for each province in Canada.

covid19tracker.ca

Check it out. Either get your facts straight or stop lying, pick one, I don't care which.

You're not showing the unused vaccines in the other provinces. You're just showing us select numbers in attempt to make Ontario look bad.

"In total, 2,825,795 doses of COVID-19 vaccines have been delivered to Ontario for administration. As of today, 80.6% of doses delivered to Ontario have been administered."

This is the third highest percentage of doses delivered already administered. The only province that has administered a higher percentage of doses delivered is Quebec and Sask who are smaller populations and only marginally ahead at 82% and 84%.

Every other province has a lower percentage of doses delivered administered, it's right here on the same website you're using:

COVID-19 Tracker Canada - Vaccination Tracker

Real-time COVID-19 vaccination updates for every region in Canada, tracking doses of Moderna, Pfizer-BioNTech and AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine delivered and administered to Canadians.

covid19tracker.ca

"As of today, 78.4% of doses delivered to the provinces have been administered."

And the largest province Ontario is beating the average at 80.6%, and they are doing "badly"? You must be joking.

 

[Altair]

You're not showing the unused vaccines in the other provinces. You're just showing us numbers in attempt to make Ontario look bad.

"In total, 2,825,795 doses of COVID-19 vaccines have been delivered to Ontario for administration. As of today, 80.6% of doses delivered to Ontario have been administered."

This is the second highest percentage of doses delivered already administered. The only province that has administered a higher percentage of doses delivered is Quebec and Sask who are smaller populations and only marginally ahead at 82% and 84%.

Every other province has a lower percentage of doses delivered administered, it's right here on the same website you're using:

COVID-19 Tracker Canada - Vaccination Tracker

Real-time COVID-19 vaccination updates for every region in Canada, tracking doses of Moderna, Pfizer-BioNTech and AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine delivered and administered to Canadians.

covid19tracker.ca

Alberta and Saskatchewan just got a large delivery, which is why I took a screenshot of the situation yesterday.

Yesterday Alberta was around 90 percent.

And looking at Alberta, they to date were using up all their supply and getting a new shipment exactly when they used up their supply.

Again, I was targeting Ontario because premier Ford was LYING.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1377511448092479489

 

[Good2Golf]

Every country is doing things differently,the UK for example isn't following the 3 week delivery schedule,but they are considered a success story.

...because they are predominantly vaccinating with A-Z, which of course only needs one shot, so for them, it is a success, not a half-added stop-gap trying to pretend things have magically improved over the last 48 hours.

Come back with the latest ‘full-vaccination’ figures for Canada, and some of the members here may consider that you’re something other than a heavily-biased Trudeau shill, who hates Ford and is intellectually incapable of considering the positive nature of Ontario vaccinating almost 3 million citizens.