Car Thief Beaten- Will We See More of The Same?
- Thread starter Bruce Monkhouse
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Sounds like his daughter is no prize either, moved out at 16 to do drugs with some lowlifes. My parents would have beat my ass for thinking it. Her brother was into drugs as well wow!..........good parenting! When parenting techniques fail turn to manslaughter the permanent solution. ;D
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Samsquanch said:
And how many teen kids do YOU have out in the world? Blame Mummy and Daddy because the kid associates with dirt bags, huh? Was it your dad's fault the first time you smoked up? Did your mum force you to fingerbang Suzie Rottencrotch behind the bleachers in Grade 8? The fact with kids is this: You can show them the path, you can't always make them take it, no matter how many Dr Spock books you read. This blame the parents bullshit is, well, bullshit. A little accountability would be nice. Just wake up in the morning and say "today I choose not to be a shitbird", then follow up on it. "If I screw up today, it's because daddy never hugged me, so that's okay" isn't the same.
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The youth justice system in the country is garbage. I'm 16 and I know that if I go and steal a car that is my fault its not my parents or school it's me (besides my parents have told me they'd call the cops on me).
They should get rid of the whole act and treat teenagers as adults. And as for the crackhead who beat the guy with the bat he didn't know the guy stole that car he just beat the crap out of someone because they we're in an accident. It could have been anyone, that guy should be charged.
And as for people who murder people if they find them guilty they should hand them over to the victims family so they can punish them, i'm sure that would cut down on repeat offenders.
They should get rid of the whole act and treat teenagers as adults. And as for the crackhead who beat the guy with the bat he didn't know the guy stole that car he just beat the crap out of someone because they we're in an accident. It could have been anyone, that guy should be charged.
And as for people who murder people if they find them guilty they should hand them over to the victims family so they can punish them, i'm sure that would cut down on repeat offenders.
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nowhere_man said:
Seems to me that this is one of the reasons we have troops in Afghanistan......to stop these OLD ideas of vigilante justice.
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New bumper sticker(s) for Winnipeg to capitalise on this ordeal.
http://www.winnipegsun.com/News/Winnipeg/2007/01/16/3387878-sun.html
http://www.winnipegsun.com/News/Winnipeg/2007/01/16/3387878-sun.html
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Kat Stevens said:
Kat,
I wish I could relate last nights social work "tour de stupid" but I can't. Lets just say the reason was even dumber than that........
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Maybe I'm crazy Kat, but I think murdering people who you don't want hanging out with your daughter is hummmm... overkill.... Maybe? Ahhhh good memories of grade 8 are rushing back into my head Mary Jane rotten she was a nice girl I got along well with her Dad.
I agree whole heatedly about being a victims society. Boohoo not enough hugs. All I'm saying is buddy probably isn't all there upstairs, and if he thinks killing people is perfectly fine what kind of ideas did his daughter get from the warped point of view.
That being said I'm happy that particular 24 year old is no longer breathing up all the good air. More for me and mary jane rotten #24
Cheers
I agree whole heatedly about being a victims society. Boohoo not enough hugs. All I'm saying is buddy probably isn't all there upstairs, and if he thinks killing people is perfectly fine what kind of ideas did his daughter get from the warped point of view.
That being said I'm happy that particular 24 year old is no longer breathing up all the good air. More for me and mary jane rotten #24
Cheers
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And nowhere did I say I condoned the killing. Maybe if I was in the same situation, I wouldn't do much different, this is his child we're talking about. The father/daughter bond is a very special one. My whole point was that you blamed the parenting skills for her being a reprobate, not the fact that she CHOOSES to be a reprobate.
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I hear you it's got to be bad watching a scumbag come to the door to pick up your daughter. I can't even imagine....
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I had a great call last year. As follows:
My partner and I respond to an assault report complaint. On arrival, two sixteen year olds appear to have been beaten fairly well, albeit looking terribly cool in their ball caps-askew, wife beater tank tops with hip hop chains and shorts around their knees. :
They go on to relate that they had been at Walmart and had purchased a video game. Having opened it, played it and were done with it, they chose to bring it back. Upon finding out that Walmart is not in the video game rental business, they proceeded to scream and yell at the 18 year old female clerk. By their own admissions, they were calling her "bitch" "hoe" and made veiled threats of retaliation if they didn't get their money back. Store security then tells them to get out, and they continue to scream, rant on about their "rights" and refuse to leave (I had to give them some credit for being unbelievably candid about what tools they had been)
Then for "no reason" (after some digging, come to find out that one had screamed back into the store his feeling that the clerk was a c^nt) "some big adult guy comes over and starts punching me in the face. And all these people were standing around and they weren't even DOING anything to help us. And my friend tried to get him to stop, and he got punched to! And we're just kids, and that is, like, against the law".
Dad is there as well, and goes on to brag about how he always had to do all the jail time that he ever was given and that if he had to be held to the law, these other people should be too. Plus, they are all upset that the original unit that attended the scene laughed at the kids, then told them to get off the property or they would be arrested for trespassing.
My partner and I are trying not to laugh ourselves, and both later agree that we would have given half a paycheque to see these little turds get tarred. I let all parties know that they just got a valuable lesson in "Don't let your mouth write a cheque that your body can't cash". Dad then comes up with the flawless solution that he will then stake out the Walmart and follow the female clerk home with his son's help and "take care of it myself". I then helpfully point out that he is a jackass (twice, because he said "pardon me?" the first time) and that no officer would have any problem locking them up if this matter went any further. After receiving the obligatory "that's what my tax dollars are paying for?" and getting back "you are on welfare. Paying GST/PST on cigarettes and booze doesn't fund municipal policing" we leave and laugh for about an hour.
However, I think the best part of the story would be the part you don't see. All of the people who got to see said dinks pummelled and then went on to tell the story to others. And then they told the story, and so on, and so on....
Should the public take the law into their own hands? Probably not.
Should they refrain from the same because there is a legal system that works? Not a chance.
Will the public expect to see anything in the future that approximates justice? Forget about it.
I don't think random beatings are the solution (long term, mind you) but the spirit of the act is. People have to take back their society and have a sense of responsibility towards it. There was a time when someone was being rude or out of line in public, people would speak up and others would back them. Now, anyone can do anything they want and everyone else is supposed to suck it up. The police can only do so much, and since the judges are hell bent on destroying this country some thing has to give.
In the mean time, you won't see a lot of boo hooing or hand wringing from your street level police when these things happen.
My partner and I respond to an assault report complaint. On arrival, two sixteen year olds appear to have been beaten fairly well, albeit looking terribly cool in their ball caps-askew, wife beater tank tops with hip hop chains and shorts around their knees. :
They go on to relate that they had been at Walmart and had purchased a video game. Having opened it, played it and were done with it, they chose to bring it back. Upon finding out that Walmart is not in the video game rental business, they proceeded to scream and yell at the 18 year old female clerk. By their own admissions, they were calling her "bitch" "hoe" and made veiled threats of retaliation if they didn't get their money back. Store security then tells them to get out, and they continue to scream, rant on about their "rights" and refuse to leave (I had to give them some credit for being unbelievably candid about what tools they had been)
Then for "no reason" (after some digging, come to find out that one had screamed back into the store his feeling that the clerk was a c^nt) "some big adult guy comes over and starts punching me in the face. And all these people were standing around and they weren't even DOING anything to help us. And my friend tried to get him to stop, and he got punched to! And we're just kids, and that is, like, against the law".
Dad is there as well, and goes on to brag about how he always had to do all the jail time that he ever was given and that if he had to be held to the law, these other people should be too. Plus, they are all upset that the original unit that attended the scene laughed at the kids, then told them to get off the property or they would be arrested for trespassing.
My partner and I are trying not to laugh ourselves, and both later agree that we would have given half a paycheque to see these little turds get tarred. I let all parties know that they just got a valuable lesson in "Don't let your mouth write a cheque that your body can't cash". Dad then comes up with the flawless solution that he will then stake out the Walmart and follow the female clerk home with his son's help and "take care of it myself". I then helpfully point out that he is a jackass (twice, because he said "pardon me?" the first time) and that no officer would have any problem locking them up if this matter went any further. After receiving the obligatory "that's what my tax dollars are paying for?" and getting back "you are on welfare. Paying GST/PST on cigarettes and booze doesn't fund municipal policing" we leave and laugh for about an hour.
However, I think the best part of the story would be the part you don't see. All of the people who got to see said dinks pummelled and then went on to tell the story to others. And then they told the story, and so on, and so on....
Should the public take the law into their own hands? Probably not.
Should they refrain from the same because there is a legal system that works? Not a chance.
Will the public expect to see anything in the future that approximates justice? Forget about it.
I don't think random beatings are the solution (long term, mind you) but the spirit of the act is. People have to take back their society and have a sense of responsibility towards it. There was a time when someone was being rude or out of line in public, people would speak up and others would back them. Now, anyone can do anything they want and everyone else is supposed to suck it up. The police can only do so much, and since the judges are hell bent on destroying this country some thing has to give.
In the mean time, you won't see a lot of boo hooing or hand wringing from your street level police when these things happen.
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+1 zipperhead_cop
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Zip, because you are a SME on this subject I got a few nagging questions:
how come the judges are so lenient?
Who appoints them?
how come the judges are so lenient?
Who appoints them?
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the judges are appointed by the Premier of each province, then the SCC level, the prime minister. Why are judges so lenient? well... beats me! there are several ideas with regards to this:
1) because that's what the politicians want
2) because that's what the public want
3) because that's what the politicians want
so.... I don't know nothing makes sense anymore ;D maybe we should move to a retributive system where old style of justice is served. Angry mob beatings anyone?
there are several ideas with regards to this:1) because that's what the politicians want
2) because that's what the public want
3) because that's what the politicians want
so.... I don't know nothing makes sense anymore ;D maybe we should move to a retributive system where old style of justice is served. Angry mob beatings anyone?
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MedTech said:the judges are appointed by the Premier of each province, then the SCC level, the prime minister. Why are judges so lenient? well... beats me!
1) because that's what the politicians want
2) because that's what the public want
3) because that's what the politicians want
so.... I don't know nothing makes sense anymore ;D maybe we should move to a retributive system where old style of justice is served. Angry mob beatings anyone?
Provincial Court Judges and Justices of the Peace are appointed by the Province. Superior Court Judges are appointed by the Federal government on the recommendation of special appointing committees, which interestingly enough have been receiving a lot of attention lately because the conservatives are planning on making changes to the committee, which has all the usual bleeding heart left wing hug a thugs up in arms. The reason, they plan on appointing police officers (retired obviously) to these committees which are primarily made up of lawyers and academics. They are claiming that this is all partisan blah blah, they (the Conservatives) are trying to stack the committees with people who will appoint more "law and order" types (like that would be a bad thing), that police should have no say or stake in how judges are appointed.
This says it all
http://torontosun.canoe.ca/Comment/Letters/2007/02/19/3644721.html
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MedTech said:the judges are appointed by the Premier of each province, then the SCC level, the prime minister. Why are judges so lenient? well... beats me!
1) because that's what the politicians want
2) because that's what the public want
3) because that's what the politicians want
so.... I don't know nothing makes sense anymore ;D maybe we should move to a retributive system where old style of justice is served. Angry mob beatings anyone?
Judges will come right out and tell you; they are above the public interest. Just look at some of the comments that came out of the SCC when it was challenging the anti-terrorism laws. The way they see it, they are the only line between chaos and mob rule. Since we unwashed masses are so swayed by popular opinion and have collective ADD, and so very critically unintelligent, it is their job to act as a stone in a sea of hysteria.
Judges are appointed by the government. So we have about three decades of Liberal decisions that will haunt us for the next twenty years or so. How bad do you think things will be by then?
Judges are everything that is wrong in Canada
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zipperhead_cop said:
Thanks zip, always a pleasure reading your insight,
Toronto may have smog warnings, Ottawa has arrogance warnings with DFAIT, NDHQ and the Senate among the heaviest polluters. I guess we should add the SCC to the list. ;D
Speak of the devil, looked out the window and it's getting a little foggy outside
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career_radio-checker said:
I post, because I care... :-*
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zipperhead_cop: I understand and agree with many of your sentiments, however...
Where do we draw a line in the sand in regards to the SCC and political expediency? In many ways, the Anti-Terrorism Act breached s.1 of the Charter in a severe way (this is why the original legislation was given the 5 year sunset clause). The want for the Libs to take the "worst" parts of the ATA out only makes sense in my eyes (seeing as they've never been used). We have other legislation (Federal Emergency Act IIRC?) that can serve in a terror emergency just fine. This is probably going to sound a bit idealistic, but I would rather err on more freedom than less. It's a slippery slope from liberal democracy to dictatorship/police states (just ask the Wiemar republic...) Just a thought.
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On the topic of young punks being royally stupid. I can sympathize. I actually had $1800 worth of damage done to my car when two guys (maybe 18) got out of their car infront me and kicked one of my doors during in a fit of road-rage (Campbell and Wyandotte... nice and thugged out, they were in a '93 DeVille with 20" wire rim wheels)... I know that the justice system isn't going to fix them or make them a valuable member of society, because they don't honestly care. Maybe if someone gave them a good beat down they'd figure out that they aren't so tough and rules are meant to be followed. Maybe the Young Offender's Act is a joke :threat: :threat: :threat:
So where do we draw the balance?
Where do we draw a line in the sand in regards to the SCC and political expediency? In many ways, the Anti-Terrorism Act breached s.1 of the Charter in a severe way (this is why the original legislation was given the 5 year sunset clause). The want for the Libs to take the "worst" parts of the ATA out only makes sense in my eyes (seeing as they've never been used). We have other legislation (Federal Emergency Act IIRC?) that can serve in a terror emergency just fine. This is probably going to sound a bit idealistic, but I would rather err on more freedom than less. It's a slippery slope from liberal democracy to dictatorship/police states (just ask the Wiemar republic...) Just a thought.
---
On the topic of young punks being royally stupid. I can sympathize. I actually had $1800 worth of damage done to my car when two guys (maybe 18) got out of their car infront me and kicked one of my doors during in a fit of road-rage (Campbell and Wyandotte... nice and thugged out, they were in a '93 DeVille with 20" wire rim wheels)... I know that the justice system isn't going to fix them or make them a valuable member of society, because they don't honestly care. Maybe if someone gave them a good beat down they'd figure out that they aren't so tough and rules are meant to be followed. Maybe the Young Offender's Act is a joke :threat: :threat: :threat:
So where do we draw the balance?
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