Canadian Political Downward Spiral [Split from Reconstitution]

[Rifleman62]

We have created a political class but not a very good ruling class. Too many perks and not enough limitations.

Recall Legislation, if you can get enough voters interested enough to get off their ass.

 

[dapaterson]

Perhaps the problem is we have created a political class. How many "commoners" are in the HOC anymore ?

Yes, I know what is meant by commoner in this term. And while they are commoners in the regal sense they are arguably now members of an aristocracy and no longer representative of the Common Canadian.

Like a school teacher?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Like a school teacher?

You've lost me lol

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Our political class has always existed. The issue that has arisen is that, while politics has always been a self serving profession, there isn't even the afterthought of "helping people" attached to it.

You look at political decisions made in the last 60 years and you can see it has devolved into vote buying/clout buying and not what is actually best for the country.

If I ask my 13 year old if they want me to spend the mortgage money on video games... you bet your ass they will see every cent spent on consoles, games, and expansion packs. That's going to be great until we default and have no house to play it in. I also imagine my wife and other children may have some concerns as to why we aren't eating supper or why the house is freezing cold. But hey, I'm in 13 year oldest good books and that gets me some influence with him.

I would say after Trudeau the First told Alberta to drop dead the first time, it became less and less about what was good for Canada and more and more about "who's getting me re-elected?" in the eyes of our political class. It was no longer about uniting Canadians, but more about gaining and keeping power to shape what "Canada" was; both socially, economically, and on the world stage.

Take a look at how easily manipulated the LPC and CPC both were when Beijing came knocking. They both knew the kinds of pressure they could extort on ex-pats and turned a blind eye to their meddling. Why?

Votes are worth more in Toronto/Vancouver... and those are the 2 main jumping off points for Chinese-Canadians.

When re-election matters more than dealing effectively with the day to day, very real issues of governing a country... it's time to reassess the whole rotten structure

 

[dapaterson]

Votes are worth more in Toronto/Vancouver... and those are the 2 main jumping off points for Chinese-Canadians.

Votes are worth less in urban areas - the number of voters per seat is materially lower in rural areas than urban. The classic example is PEI, where each riding could sit (individually) in the SkyDome at a Blue Jays game and have thousands of empty seats.

Urban areas dominate because they hold the majority of Canada's population.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Votes are worth less in urban areas - the number of voters per seat is materially lower in rural areas than urban. The classic example is PEI, where each riding could sit (individually) in the SkyDome at a Blue Jays game and have thousands of empty seats.

Urban areas dominate because they hold the majority of Canada's population.

Ugh not this again... Must not get drug in...

 

[dapaterson]

There are interesting tables, both of every riding, and summary by province, at Population of Canadian federal ridings - Wikipedia

 

[Remius]

Recall Legislation, if you can get enough voters interested enough to get off their ass.

Term limits. No one should spend their whole lives in politics doing nothing but that.

Make it attractive but not attractive enough to become complacent and a perpetual incumbent.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Term limits. No one should spend their whole lives in politics doing nothing but that.

Make it attractive but not attractive enough to become complacent and a perpetual incumbent.

That and we need to find a way to take the rich and powerful out of the HOC.

 

[mariomike]

Votes are worth more in Toronto/Vancouver...

Votes are worth less in urban areas -

There are interesting tables, both of every riding, and summary by province, at Population of Canadian federal ridings - Wikipedia

This never gets old.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

This never gets old.

I’m in the Maritimes (aka District 12). We know we don’t matter (except for potatoes and lobster for The Capital).

 

[Halifax Tar]

I’m in the Maritimes (aka District 12). We know we don’t matter (except for potatoes and lobster for The Capital).

We matter for the first bit of elections night. Then Que and Ont start to roll in and we're forgotten.

If martimers ever learned how little the country thinks about them they'd be shocked.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

We matter for the first bit of elections night. The Que and Ont start to roll in and we're forgotten.

If martimers ever learned how little the country thinks of them they'd be shocked.

It's not just the Maritimes. Anywhere outside of Montreal and Toronto knows you're but a drop in the bucket. Ontario is a sea of Blue until you hit Whitby.

I sincerely wish for proportional representation in my lifetime.

 

[mariomike]

I've been in workplaces in which the HR zealots were essentially administrative burdens, and drove out good people.

There was no diversity in my workplace when I joined. No visible minorities. No women.

Lot of old-fashioned "fishing boat talk" in the stations.

There were no "HR zealots". But, it was made clear from Day 1 if you treated anyone, outside the station, with disrespect, they would "change your employment".

The union would send a rep to hold your hand. If you were lucky enough to keep your job, best you could hope for was transfer to someplace the public would never see or hear from you again. Like a sewage treatment plant.

That was before the Employment Equity Act. Whole new ballgame after that.

 

[quadrapiper]

This country is design so the federal takes care or, international affair, military, border, postal and transport. It is not a sexy mandate, that’s why they always jump into the provincial realm. Kindergarten and dental insurance are 1000% provincial jurisdictions. In the mean time, nothing on is own jurisdictions.

It’s a a point where a lot of people are confused in each roles. When everything is respected, that’s funny how you don’t ear about autonomy/independence or other similar actions.

There's also arguments to be made about duplication of effort and prodding provinces into actually doing things for their residents.

As for expecting, say, free top-quality health care, I think it's understood (though expectations might be a bit high due to our neighbour's even more egregious situation) by a fair chunk of the population (including people who don't think of themselves as "left") that the very richest block of the population and of corporate entities could certainly pay [more/their] taxes without harming the economic success of Canada overall.

 

[QV]

Term limits. No one should spend their whole lives in politics doing nothing but that.

Make it attractive but not attractive enough to become complacent and a perpetual incumbent.

I think there needs to be more robust laws regarding lobbying/fundraising/"foundations", post office employment, connections to foreign powers. We need laws on the books that direct "in the national interest" in key areas and not allow for party preferences to win votes. I'm thinking defence and energy to name a couple. I don't know how that looks but a close example I can think of is how Australia manages it's defence budget. if I understand that correctly it is entirely non-partisan but maybe someone else can explain.

I've got no problem with the right person steering the ship for eight years or more if they win legit elections.

 

[Brad Sallows]

the very richest block of the population and of corporate entities could certainly pay [more/their] taxes without harming the economic success of Canada overall.

That's a very loose statement. How do you know that what they do with their money does not achieve a greater net economic "success" than the conscription of that money for one purpose?

Note: I'm not arguing that health care is not a good use of money. I will stipulate (again) that any public expenditure probably benefits someone, somewhere. I'm arguing against the facile misinterpretation that it is the optimum use. Governments essentially conscript in order to achieve specific aims, but conscription (whether of money or other resources or people) will usually be less economically efficient that whatever else people might have decided to do with their money, their other resources, or themselves.

 

[quadrapiper]

That's a very loose statement. How do you know that what they do with their money does not achieve a greater net economic "success" than the conscription of that money for one purpose?

Because healthcare, defence, education, transportation infrastructure, cultural and communications infrastructure (both theatres and telecommunications are good things to have), all utilities, food/water/natural resource security and preservation, judicial/dispute-resolution/protective apparatus, and emergency services of all kinds are vital, desperately boring, and in many cases hard (or hazardous: armies, police) to frame or address in a capitalistic/corporate mode, especially outside a very small or personal footprint, and by their nature screamingly inefficient (armed forces, disaster response anything, the more specialized side of healthcare, etc.).

 

[WLSC]

I don't believe anyone in these positions is that stupid or naive. In fact it's naive to think this cascade of crap that is bringing this country down is all just because a handful of people are inept and naive themselves.

But don't even have a look? Just wait for overwhelming evidence to land in your lap?

I'm not saying it's impossible either or I that was not looking. We are still in a justice based society, you have to prove guilty in front of a court/board of inquiry or something. In the mean time, stupid and poor judgment.

This kind of matters demand calm et solid proof.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Because healthcare, defence, education, transportation infrastructure, cultural and communications infrastructure (both theatres and telecommunications are good things to have), all utilities, food/water/natural resource security and preservation, judicial/dispute-resolution/protective apparatus, and emergency services of all kinds are vital, desperately boring, and in many cases hard (or hazardous: armies, police) to frame or address in a capitalistic/corporate mode, especially outside a very small or personal footprint, and by their nature screamingly inefficient (armed forces, disaster response anything, the more specialized side of healthcare, etc.).

Probably a good idea not to include things which are, can be, or have been non-public at some point.

Add: more to point, "reconstitution" has to be paid for. Most government revenues come from taxation, which essentially amounts to carving off a fraction of productive measured economic activity. The more the economic activity, the more the revenues. Government bureaucracies aren't noted for goosing high productive uses of capital. We don't believe it, or we would have tried. The Soviets and a few others did try.