Canadian excels on Ranger course

[Bartok5]

For those who put stock in "buttons and bows", the Ranger and SF tabs are worn only on the Canadian DEU and Mess Dress. 

As if it really matters.  Those who have graduated from those foreign courses know what they've accomplished.  We are sufficiently small as an Army that those around them also know.  Anything more would be sheer self-aggrandizement. 

I for one, am quite happy to note that our Army has never seen a need to indulge in wearing our Personnel Files on our combat uniforms.....  Let's keep it that way.

Just my personal opinion, of course.

 

[Infanteer]

for the most part it's well known that man to man, in individual soldier skills our troops are superior.   We're trained in more than one job across the army.   This along with the wealth of operational experience that the Reg Force have ,and the Canadian "Just get it done" attitude is probably a key factor in why we traditionally place high on this and other American crses.

I wouldn't be to easy to discount the average American serviceman anymore.  Consider the fact that they've been on "War" footing for 3 years now.  As PBI has alluded to, the skills and capabilities of the US soldier is probably going to destroy some comfy Canadian misconceptions.

I for one, am quite happy to note that our Army has never seen a need to indulge in wearing our Personnel Files on our combat uniforms..... Let's keep it that way.

Here here - too much gaudy junk just looks tacky.

I have a buddy in the American Army with 5 ribbons - he's yet to be in an operational unit yet....

 

[Island Ryhno]

Barry Nesbitt is not only a fine soldier but a fine man as well, we spent some time together when Cpl Murphy died last year, we were both close friends of his. I don't think that there is anything out there that could stop Barry Nesbitt, based on his character alone, nevermind his superior soldering skills 

 

[Love793]

I wouldn't be to easy to discount the average American serviceman anymore.   Consider the fact that they've been on "War" footing for 3 years now.   As PBI has alluded to, the skills and capabilities of the US soldier is probably going to destroy some comfy Canadian misconceptions.

Here here - too much gaudy junk just looks tacky.

I have a buddy in the American Army with 5 ribbons - he's yet to be in an operational unit yet....

I never tried to discount them, they are all truly professionals, and I would go to war with those guys any day of the week.  They're skills are incresing by leaps and bounds, however I still feel they rely to much on tecnology.  What do you do when the batteries die on the PLGR?  Things like that are what I was getting at.

 

[purple peguin]

Congratulations to the soldiers who qualified, they had a show on the ranger coarse on the discovery channel,  absolutely tuff.

 

[Ranger]

Congratulations, I know a guy who's taking the Ranger course (he's American) and he's going to let me know how he does.
Congrats again!! Good job and well Done!

 

[pdr379]

first congrats to all those past and present who are taking and have finished the ranger course. in deed it would be a hard course to top but you must also remember we are sending MCPL's and above and Capt's and above to attempt the course. i don't think you could expect anything less than them topping the course when they're going against alot of newer and less experienced soldiers that the american's have attempting the course.  it would be like sending a MCPL on a BIQ now, you would only expect he would top the course.

but in the end it is indeed a extremly hard course and congrats to all those who have passed. it's just one more thing that proves that they are amongst the best in the canadian army

 

[Island Ryhno]

Sorry bro but Nesbitt was a CPl when he did the course.

 

[axeman]

any of the pers that i know that have been sent on that famed course have been at least iscc whooops plq  qual . i think im not sure they have already passed the basic recce course  also .
one thing i  know of when we worked with them  " NO TAB ON THE SLAB "  sux to be in and not have the tab.

 

[Garett]

Capt Lapointe was my Sect Comd on my Pl Comd's Crse right after he did the Range Crse.  He's a bit nuts.

As far as sowing American badges on your CADPAT's, I've seen a Cdn LCol with a 3ID Combat Patch sown on his shoulder.  He was with the Div when it fought through Iraq.

 

[54/102 CEF]

Other (non) Rangers have had ideas on how long to get the trg into the soldier's/officer's/formation's head - and if there is no time - what to do about it.

If my memory serves - In part 2 of the bio of Gen Bernard Montgomery whilst trg for ops in North Africa pre-El Alamein - he subscribed to about 28 days in the field - on the go - all the time - and then he had something he could work with.

In the 1957 memoirs of Gunner Gen Alan Brooke (who was Chief of Staff to Winston Churchill) published by Arthur Wynne Morgan Bryant's books Turn of the tide (Collins, London, 1957) --- he referrs to the requirement to hit the enemy with the Montgomery set piece battle as they had no time to get the Commonwealth Armies to the level of an infinite fighting doctrine - i.e. no matter how shot up they got the germans had a doctrine that allowed them to reform and present a continuous obstacle to the Brits - Cdns and others.

He blames the pre-war lack of money and inter service rivalry (which meant Army tribalism)

Are there shades of yesterday today? I think there are and the mothballing of the M109s and Tanks are just straws in the wind that we'll pay for down the road.

PS: Well done all Rangers!  :

 

[cbt arms sub tech]

For someone to do so well on a Ranger course, it probably helps to be a little nuts, compared to having a family, hobbies or other distractions while on a ranger course with the States...

 

[tomahawk6]

To do well on the course you must be motivated and fit. In the old days [before the Ranger battalions] the students had no prior training/preparation. Today soldiers headed for the Ranger battalions attend the 6 week Ranger Indoctrination Program [RIP] before going to a ranger battalion. After 1-2 years in the battalion they will get a chance to earn their tab. Infantry officers attend Ranger/Abn School usually after their Basic Branch Course. But ROTC cadets can attend Airborne/Ranger School on a limited basis. It is a leadership course plain and simple. To be successful students have to pass 2-3 patrols [as leader].

http://www.benning.army.mil/rtb/rtbmain.asp

 

[McAllister]

Awesome link. What class ere you in Tomahawk?  http://www.benning.army.mil/rtb/photo.htm

 

[kcdist]

Just discovered this site, and finally found something worth responding to...

Not mentioned on this thread was one of the reasons Canadians generally do well on the course. (And if memory serves, contrary to the lead article, many Canadians have come off the course as top dog - I personally know of two others). Unlike our American comrades, patrolling is a key component of our training (Phase 3 officer and ISCC). For most of the Americans, the first time they encounter patrolling is while in a sleep deprived state during the course.

I'm also not sure who copied who, but much of our patrolling doctrine is the same. Therefore, Canadians are able to work on instinct, and just have to focus on the hardships, while the Americans have to work through the stress and try and perform tasks they have never before done.

The attrition rate truly is phenomenal...They generally have over 500 candidates show up on the first day of the course, and can only proceed with 300 and change. The initial testing is a bloodbath. On the 40 minute five mile run, if you're more than an arms length back, you move to the back of the formation...a second warning and you're gone. Depending on how many they have to lose, much of the run is done at a 10 minute pace, and then the sprinting begins. If you fall back during the sprint, you move to the back.

The course starts in earnest on the third day when they are in the 300 range. Over the next four phases of training, a course typically is whittled down to fifty originals. However, in each phase, retreads join the course. These are candidates that failed a particular phase once and are allowed to retry that phase. The true measure of success therefore, is not whether you passed the course, but whether you did it without a 'recycle'.

Although geared as a leadership course, it is truly a course of endurance and toughness, and it's nearly impossible to fake your way through. At the end of each phase, a peer rating is conducted. If you rank in the bottom, you fail the phase.

Try running a Canadian Infantry course where you're restricted to one IMP per day, marching countless miles with over 100 pounds in your rucksack, no sleep for seven days straight and no sympathy from your DS....Any Canadian taking the Ranger course gains new found respect for how a war fighting army trains its members...

 

[X Royal]

kcdist quite a first post. How about something in your profile to show your not a complete BS'er. I don't believe you are but we see some on the site. A little background on yourself will go a long way in respect to your credibility.

Best Wishes

 

[tomahawk6]

Do not confuse Ranger School with how US infantry units train. Ranger School is a leadership course - first and foremost.
Patroling makes or break a student. Most student's get 2-3 patrols which they must pass to graduate. It is also the only Army course that I know of where everyone starts with 1000 points. It takes 700 to graduate. From day one most people lose points although a student can get bonus points for various things it is the exception not the rule. An example. In the survival training an instructor demonstrated how to bite a snake behind the head to kill it. He then asked for a volunteer. A Marine was selected. The snake was writhing and as the Marine went to bite the snake he was bit on the lip. The Marine went into a rage and ripped the snake's head off with his hands. The instructor was impressed and awarded the Marine 25 points.

 

[kcdist]

Hmmmm,

Still somewhat computer illiterate, but I think I've succeeded in completing the profile.

Have no concerns....I would not waste my time trying to impress.

However, I will say one thing about the Ranger Course. When I returned home, I was quite depressed for awhile, and I know that I was not alone in feeling that way after speaking to other graduates. The issue was that while on the course, I felt that I belonged to an organization that was truly training for war. Hardcore to the extreme. Everything was first rate, with no expense spared. Not a fantasian in site. There was nothing notional. Those that were left at the end of the course belonged there.

By contrast, upon return, I instructed on a Phase 3 officer course. The difference in training couldn't have been more dramatic to me. Although some failed, many more should have. The resources that should have been available were not. There was a very poor level of standardization between platoons, and the augmentation staff had to develop much of the training on the fly. The toughness of the course depended on the course officers...some had it easy, some not so much. The OPI should have been fired.

It became apparent to me how much better the Canadian Infantry could be...in both equipment and mindset. Not to say I believe all U.S. Infantry units are up to the same standard as the Rangers, however, we're not even in the same league. The following year, as I looked upon in disgust at my company's ammunition allotment (7 - 5.56 rounds per man for the entire year!), the CF was spending over a Billion dollars to close down a perfectly functional base in Calgary and move it to Edmonton. 

I could continue on for pages, like my disgust at receiving a sweat soaked, hand-me-down Kevlar Helmut and flak vest upon arrival in Croatia, but I shall not. Suffice to say, my attendance on the Ranger Course was an eye opening experience.

 

[SeanPaul_031]

Congrats to him

Is he gonna be a ranger now with the US or will he return to Canada and continue his service with The 1 RCR?

And wouldnt you have to have a Us citizenship or a green card to become a ranger?

 

[paracowboy]

Congrats to him

Is he gonna be a ranger now with the US or will he return to Canada and continue his service with The 1 RCR?

And wouldnt you have to have a Us citizenship or a green card to become a ranger?

are these serious questions? Do you honestly believe that by completing an American course, you can automatically join their military? Just like that? Our army would be willing to piss away the hundeds of thousands of dollars spent on training you? The Yanks would just open their doors? Even though you haven't completed their Basic training? By a simple reading of this thread, you'd know that.
They went to a school and attended a course. A grueling course, one of the most demanding leadership courses in the world, but still a course. They have already returned to their units where they are eating everyting they can, and wearing several layers of clothes. If their units care about their welfare, they have also been on Leave to recover, somewhat.

If those were serious questions, you are woefully ignorant about how the Rangers work. You don't go to the Batts because you completed the school. The tab means you're a graduate of a school. The scroll means you've served as a Ranger.