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Canada's purchase of the Leopard 2 MBT

I was watching a TV news show last night and Peter Churra of A-Channel News from London, Ontario
was interviewing someone on Parliament Hill. At one point during the interview, Churra criticized the recent Leopard
purchase, arguing that it would give the opposition in the House the ability to say that the mission in Afghanistan would
be "overmilitarized" and that it should be cancelled.

I was dumbstruck by the comment. Does Churra not realize that Afghanistan is
a bona fide war zone, and that the Taliban want to kill as many Canadian (and NATO) soldiers
as they can, by any means possible? How do you 'overmilitarize' a war zone, anyway? Does he not
realize that, with no tanks or proper fire support, more Canadian soldiers will die
in firefights with the Taliban?

I suppose his 'solution' to the problem would be to have peacekeepers only in Afghanistan 
to satisfy people who want the Canadian military to be an uber-helpful Boy Scout type of organization.
His solution (or non-solution, rather) would also please the left when inevitably, those peacekeepers
find themselves unable to defend themselves and get shot to ribbons, thus providing a
justification for withdrawal.

The ignorance some journalists have about military affairs sometimes amazes me. Courses
in military history, terminology, strategy and tactics ought to be required in journalism school
for those who want to cover military matters!

I suspect Churra's comments might just be a case of 'sour grapes' since the GM Diesel plant in London will not be
making hulls and other subsystems for the MGS project, now that it has been cancelled.
 
I know you can upgrade from an A5 to a A6 as both the Germans and the Dutch did, however I have not found info on going from a A4 to a 5 or 6.
 
Larry Strong said:
I know you can upgrade from an A5 to a A6 as both the Germans and the Dutch did, however I have not found info on going from a A4 to a 5 or 6.
Sure, why not? For example all german A5 and A6 are upgraded A4. We didn´t got any new build A5/A6.

Regards,
ironduke57
 
ironduke57 said:
Sure, why not? For example all german A5 and A6 are upgraded A4. We didn´t got any new build A5/A6.

Regards,
ironduke57

Oh really?  That was my hunch but I hadn't found any documents talking about that.  I guess that makes the most sense since there were over 2000 A4s in German service when the first A5 and A6s rolled out.

I'm glad we are getting such a versatile tank.  Good to know they all can be upgraded.
 
you can upgrade pert much everything.... you just have to keep up with what is being developed and deployed - so as not to fall so far behind that it suddenly becomes prohibitive.
 
Thanks for the excellent vids Mourning.  I was just wondering, in that Discovery Channel program where the Leopard 2 placed 1st, what did the M1 Abrams and the Challenger 2 place?
 
cameron said:
Thanks for the excellent vids Mourning.  I was just wondering, in that Discovery Channel program where the Leopard 2 placed 1st, what did the M1 Abrams and the Challenger 2 place?

The Abrams was 2nd and Challenger 2 was 3rd.
 
I looked up the specs, on this tank, smoothbore 120mm main gun, with increased range and punch.

I'll do a search and post a link for you guys later.

Cheerz
Paul
GGHG 86-88
 
Steel Horse said:
The Challenger wasn't even mentioned in that program.

Oops, sorry about that. I watched that episode months ago, so my memory of it was a little fuzzy.
 
Somewhere right now, Col (retired) Ted Nurse is laughing, and DM (retired) Robert Fowler is crying.

;D
 
As a formal Patricia I am happy as hell concerning the news about the Lep 2. I know that this should have been done 10 years ago. I just hope that when the new tanks are in service we just don't throw away the remaining C2s. They may be old but they are still a highly rated MBT. Does anyone know what plans have been made conserning the old war horses if any at this point. Will some reserve regs finaly get to use tanks, Will they be used for training, I.E. enemy force armor at Wainright? I really hope we just don't throw them away.
 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/28040.0.html

entire thread on just that question

before anyone else says it.... cough cough search button cough cough  ;D
 
prom said:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/28040.0.html

entire thread on just that question

before anyone else says it.... cough cough search button cough cough  ;D

Thanks. i did look at that thread, but all the posts are discusing what might happen? I was just wondering if any decision had been made? I have been out of the loop for a very long time when I left the FN was still in use, The Illtis was a new veh in the compound which I regret ed never having got the Chance to try. and the infantry battalions still had a mortar platoon. If my questions seem a little silly I apologize.
 
Haletown said:
don't the Aussies have beer fridges bolted onto their M1's ??   

Yes.  The reasoning behind that was operating in extremely hot conditions, water got hot, and soldiers didn't drink.  By having a fridge to keep their (spare) camelbacks in, the troops were more likely to stay hydrated.  Lookied for the article - couldn't find it tonight.

Chimo
 
Steenburg said:
Thanks. i did look at that thread, but all the posts are discusing what might happen? I was just wondering if any decision had been made? I have been out of the loop for a very long time when I left the FN was still in use, The Illtis was a new veh in the compound which I regret ed never having got the Chance to try. and the infantry battalions still had a mortar platoon. If my questions seem a little silly I apologize.

No worries on the silly questions Steenburg.  I specialize in them.  The problem is that a lot of us have been knocking around these boards for long enough that we have forgotten about learning curves and figuring out how this site works.  I am still learning.

As to your question - from what I can gather no final decision has been rendered against the C2s but the heavy betting is against keeping them because of the maintenance bill. The manufacturer will no longer be supplying parts by the 2010-2012 time frame meaning that parts would have to be custom manufactured at an exorbitant cost.

Cheers and welcome to the boards.
 
Kirkhill said:
...The manufacturer will no longer be supplying parts by the 2010-2012 time frame meaning that parts would have to be custom manufactured at an exorbitant cost.

Cheers and welcome to the boards.

May I ask where you got that information from? Because I said this in an discussion on an german mil forum, that I had read this here, and no one had heard of such an development.

Regards,
ironduke57
 
ironduke57 said:
May I ask where you got that information from? Because I said this in an discussion on an german mil forum, that I had read this here, and no one had heard of such an development.

Regards,
ironduke57

I was referring to this information ironduke57:

Teddy Ruxpin, this thread, Reply #49 on: April 13, 2007, 08:30:54

The C2s won't be cascaded to any Canadian units (let alone Reserve units), unless I'm sadly misinformed.  The Leopard 1 ceases to be supported by the spares system and by KMW in 2012 and will rapidly become an orphan fleet.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/59827/post-555740.html#msg555740

Sorry, no other references.

Cheers.


Edited to incorporate the correct link.


 
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