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Saanich Bank Robbery/Aftermath (sep fm Victoria is facing a public-safety crisis)

More info on the twin brothers:

Justin Trudeau the frequent focus of Saanich shooter Instagram posts

Posted: Jul. 2, 2022 4:14PM | Last Updated: Jul. 2, 2022 5:37PM

A now-deleted Instagram feed of one of the Saanich bank shooter suspects contains posts containing anti-government, and pro-gun content.

Twenty-two-year-olds Isaac and Mathew Auchterlonie are the two suspects identified by RCMP.
They were twin brothers, who former classmates say went to Frances Kelsey Secondary School in Mill Bay.
ISAAC-AUCHTERLONIE-INSTAGRAM_13526-1024x576.jpg


Several posts on the Instagram feed are reposted videos from the Canadian Coalition for Firearm Rights, and one of the twins is pictured here wearing a CCRF shirt. (Jay Roze/Youtube)

The former classmates, who asked to not be named, spoke with CHEK News and said in high school the brothers mostly kept to themselves.

They said the brothers had plans to attend basic training for the military, but were unaware if they followed through with the plans after graduation.

The brothers graduated from high school in 2018, and the classmates were not in touch with them after that.

Isaac’s account handle was @isaacauchterlonie867, and posts on the account have a pattern of language against the federal government and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.
ISAAC-AUCHTERLONIE-INSTAGRAM_18771-1024x576.jpg


Posts on the Instagram posts often included hashtags with anti-Prime Minister Justin Trudeau sentiments. (Jay Roze/Youtube)
ISAAC-AUCHTERLONIE-INSTAGRAM_23773-1024x576.jpg


In photos with bullets, the hashtag #freedomseeds was frequently used. (Jay Roze/Youtube)
ISAAC-AUCHTERLONIE-INSTAGRAM_29104-1024x576.jpg


Instagram posts often focused on gun control. (Jay Roze/Youtube)
The account’s bio was the following bullet point list:
  • Canadian
  • Patriot
  • WW2 Pacific war enthusiastus [sic]
  • Nature
  • Firearms
Several posts also contained anti-vaccine hashtags.

Before the account was deleted, it followed several high-profile accounts like Rebel News, Canadian Coalition for Firearm Rights, National Rifle Association and Andrew Scheer.
Click to expand...

Link
 
Retired AF Guy said:
More info on the twin brothers:



Link
Click to expand...

Just ruminating...

My ill informed guess is that there are, potentially, dozens of other crazy bastards like this on Vancouver Island.

My kids' school is about 400 metres from that bank. Several other schools, malls and other places where large groups of people can be found are similar distances away.

I'm wondering if this incident will usher in a more robust approach to finding and dealing with/ deterring nut jobs like these. I mean, with social media posts like that, they're just waving a 'look at me' flag of some kind...
 
daftandbarmy said:
Just ruminating...

My ill informed guess is that there are, potentially, dozens of other crazy bastards like this on Vancouver Island.

My kids' school is about 400 metres from that bank. Several other schools, malls and other places where large groups of people can be found are similar distances away.

I'm wondering if this incident will usher in a more robust approach to finding and dealing with/ deterring nut jobs like these. I mean, with social media posts like that, they're just waving a 'look at me' flag of some kind...
Click to expand...
Just thinking out loud here, but where does the line get drawn as far as intelligence gathering by "the authorities"?

Do we go with a "if you made it public its free game" approach? Require a warrant to search open source internet information? Encourage the public to report on their physical or digital neighbour?

Not advocating in any direction, just thinking out loud. We can already see the back blast the most recent pending legislation to allow CRTC to monitor and control internet content is getting.
 
RedFive said:
Just thinking out loud here, but where does the line get drawn as far as intelligence gathering by "the authorities"?

Do we go with a "if you made it public its free game" approach? Require a warrant to search open source internet information? Encourage the public to report on their physical or digital neighbour?

Not advocating in any direction, just thinking out loud. We can already see the back blast the most recent pending legislation to allow CRTC to monitor and control internet content is getting.
Click to expand...
The quick and easy answer is 'yes'. The benchmark the courts will use is 'reasonable expectation of privacy' and there is a tonne of caselaw on that. If you post something on the web with no privacy controls or filters, it can be argued that you had no reasonable expectation of privacy. The fact that people who you'd rather not see it, like the State, do see it will, in all likelihood, end up being irrelevant.

The next two questions might be (1) what the post was and (2) what the State did to find it. A post of a dude with a rifle and a t-shirt isn't, in and of itself, illegal, but might be useful for further inquiries. A single Internet post might not be sufficient grounds for a search warrant but it can certainly be part of Information to Obtain. A member of the public alerting authorities is fine; they are not 'agents of the State'. Should the authorities develop some fancy data-mining software to scan the length and breadth of social media, if it just skims public sites, probably not a problem. the deeper it goes behind privacy efforts, the 'reasonable expectation' test would still apply. The courts have allowed some latitude to law enforcement, particularly in the area of child exploitation and pornography because of risk of harm involved.
 
That’s AI surveillance stuff- the amount of stuff posted like that and the amount of follow up that would be neccessary is astronomical. I’m sure someone will disagree with me here but I’m not interested in state surveillance at that level.

I have detachments at 40 percent strength that are having a shootout a month, I don’t care to also have to produce a unit that does that — and 10 NCOs reviewing body worn camera footage etc.

The court system needs to put bad guys in jail- alternative Justice and second chances should be provided to people. Support etc. but for mother fathers that thumb their nose at the rules of society. Jail.

When we nail that down we can start looking at this other stuff.

There was a section for that in a contract province that I was involved in- they were folded and shut down because they weren’t producing actual charges after the intel- because nothing was actionable. So what’s the use in knowing? There is a tactical use - and when we run certain ops that’s all pulled and out together but it’s not routinely useful and adds to paranoia.
 
Booter said:
That’s AI surveillance stuff- the amount of stuff posted like that and the amount of follow up that would be neccessary is astronomical. I’m sure someone will disagree with me here but I’m not interested in state surveillance at that level.

I have detachments at 40 percent strength that are having a shootout a month, I don’t care to also have to produce a unit that does that — and 10 NCOs reviewing body worn camera footage etc.

The court system needs to put bad guys in jail- alternative Justice and second chances should be provided to people. Support etc. but for mother fathers that thumb their nose at the rules of society. Jail.

When we nail that down we can start looking at this other stuff.

There was a section for that in a contract province that I was involved in- they were folded and shut down because they weren’t producing actual charges after the intel- because nothing was actionable. So what’s the use in knowing? There is a tactical use - and when we run certain ops that’s all pulled and out together but it’s not routinely useful and adds to paranoia.
Click to expand...

OTOH, if we can get better at the analysis and predictive work at all levels, the deployment of scarce resources can be better tailored to need.
 
daftandbarmy said:
OTOH, if we can get better at the analysis and predictive work at all levels, the deployment of scarce resources can be better tailored to need.
Click to expand...
We already know where the work is- we aren’t doing it. I’m not trying to be obtuse- it’s entirely possible I can’t see the forest for the trees. The actual 911 facing operational policing in Canada is in dire straits. I’m no chicken little- but until Canadians actually get comfortable with the back side of their Justice process actually admitting people need to be in jail- nothing new on the front side will have an honest return- in my coal faced opinion.
 
Yes. For example, I'm sure organized gangs are one major conduit of illegal weapons in Canada; I'm sure the authorities know which gangs exist and who many of the members are. Yet there is no leap to end their racket by scooping them all up on that basis alone. Obviously there are more requirements to fulfill than identifying troublemakers. And if troublemakers are to be cracked down upon, I prefer to see action against the very bad people, not performance art harassment of low-level idiots.
 
Booter said:
That’s AI surveillance stuff- the amount of stuff posted like that and the amount of follow up that would be necessary is astronomical. I’m sure someone will disagree with me here but I’m not interested in state surveillance at that level.
Click to expand...
The RCMP has a specialized section, the Firearms Internet Investigation Support Unit who exist to do a non-AI driven (AFAIK) search of OS social media for potential public safety threats involving firearms.
 
daftandbarmy said:
Just ruminating...

My ill informed guess is that there are, potentially, dozens of other crazy bastards like this on Vancouver Island.

My kids' school is about 400 metres from that bank. Several other schools, malls and other places where large groups of people can be found are similar distances away.

I'm wondering if this incident will usher in a more robust approach to finding and dealing with/ deterring nut jobs like these. I mean, with social media posts like that, they're just waving a 'look at me' flag of some kind...
Click to expand...
And what your proposing goes directly against most of the rights and freedoms you enjoy in this country and if anything would turn more people against the government not for it.

When you have people who are anti-government and believe in conspiracies, why do you think giving them a minority report type system will help erase their fears and resentment towards it?

Not to mention they have the right to be so called ‘nut jobs’ and up until they robbed a bank appeared to have not committed any crimes. The government should not be determining what thought is or is not acceptable, thats how things like Chinas social credit system come into effect comrade.
 
Eaglelord17 said:
And what your proposing goes directly against most of the rights and freedoms you enjoy in this country and if anything would turn more people against the government not for it.

When you have people who are anti-government and believe in conspiracies, why do you think giving them a minority report type system will help erase their fears and resentment towards it?

Not to mention they have the right to be so called ‘nut jobs’ and up until they robbed a bank appeared to have not committed any crimes. The government should not be determining what thought is or is not acceptable, thats how things like Chinas social credit system come into effect comrade.
Click to expand...
I get his frustration though- and he’s a well experienced person. People want action- and they should.

The academics say we need a new way forward- heavy on intel etc- and it’s true. But the ethical liberty stuff is becoming the real issue in lots of ways.
 
Booter said:
I get his frustration though- and he’s a well experienced person. People want action- and they should.

The academics say we need a new way forward- heavy on intel etc- and it’s true. But the ethical liberty stuff is becoming the real issue in lots of ways.
Click to expand...
And in my opinion the academics can shove it as from what I have seen coming from the academia recently is nonsense.

This is a one off, a anomaly, it doesn’t make sense to base any legislation off it. From the looks of it they were licensed firearms owners. They were vetted. They had no criminal record. If you were to take a group of society, those licenced, and those not, and look at the odds of them committing crimes these two would have been in the lowest percentile of a chance for it.

Some people do terrible things, that is a risk you face being part of society. There are scum out there which decide to run people down for literally no reason. You can’t predict or prevent certain things, and that is part of life.

Attempting to get to that point will
a) create extremists and validate their opinion
b) not actually solve anything other than wasting a ton of resources violating citizens rights
 
Enough good, detailed discussion here to rate a separate thread from Victoria's woes in general.

Please continue ...

Milnet.ca Staff
 
Poor people! I can't imagine....

Prominent Vancouver Island family collateral victims of Victoria bank robbery​

Auchterlonie family issues statement regarding online harassment

When RCMP officers in Saanich released the identity of the two suspects in the botched Victoria robbery Saturday, a Comox Valley family’s life was turned upside down.

Susan and Bob Auchterlonie were shocked to discover they shared the surname of the two deceased bank robbers. But that is all they share.

The ensuing 48 hours have been so challenging for the Comox Valley Auchterlonies, they have issued the following statement to Black Press:

This past Saturday police identified the two deceased suspects in the recent bank robbery in Victoria. The two individuals are NOT related to the Auchterlonie family from Cumberland. We have never met them, and we have no connection to them beyond sharing a unique last name.

While this tragic event never was about us, it quickly spiralled, and our weekend was spent responding to media enquiries and attempting to respond to negative comments about us on social media. Because Bob holds a senior position in the Canadian Armed Forces, he became a target. The hurtful, harmful comments posted anonymously by strangers looking to come up with conspiracy theories about our family were despicable.

As noted this tragic event was never about us. It is instead about those impacted – the officers involved, the bank staff, the bank customers and all their families and loved ones, and yes, also the two young suspects and their loved ones. Ourthoughts are with all of them.

This weekend also offered a reminder to those of us who post on social media to get the facts first and to resist engaging in speculation.
While our weekend was challenging, we know there are several families who have had a much more difficult weekend than we did, and we ask that you think of them.

Thank you to our friends for their support.

Susan Auchterlonie,

Vice-Admiral Bob Auchterlonie,
and our families

www.cowichanvalleycitizen.com

Prominent Vancouver Island family collateral victims of Victoria bank robbery

Auchterlonie family issues statement regarding online harassment
www.cowichanvalleycitizen.com www.cowichanvalleycitizen.com
 
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