Canada's purchase of the Leopard 2 MBT

[GAP]

GAP - nope. They don't fit on the A6M and even if they did, the A6M doesn't have the hydraulic attachment necessary to operate the plow/roller (IIRC).

MG

I didn't say that quite right....I am talking about the Leo's Canada sent over...are they not going to continue to be used?

 

[Roy Harding]

...
The tank rolled off the Antonov aircraft two hours late, with mechanical problem in one of its turrets. Military spokesman Capt. Hubert Genest called it a "minor glitch that will take 15 minutes to fix."

Somebody sneak a second turret into the desgin ?

That's what the "2" is for in Leopard 2

Jeez - don't you guys know anything?
;D

 

[George Wallace]

Now that is a good question, and one that we probably won't hear an answer to, until well after the Leo 2's have "settled in".  Perhaps the Mine Plows and Rollers (if there are any) will stay.  Is there really a requirement for them though?  Mine Plows are quite heavy and change the whole feel of the tank for Driver's (it becomes very 'front heavy' and tends to 'plow into the ground' when going over rough ground (even in the raised position).  The Rollers are hard to drive with over any long distance, unless driving in Reverse.  The Rollers weight several Tonnes each, and are usually transported by truck and assembled (time intensive) when needed.  So the question is are they really required that much?  A tank really doesn't need either to break down walls.  Does the LC factor of having plows on the front have any validity?  Yes and No.  They look mean....or make a mean looking tank look meaner...... but is that enough?

Time will tell us all what the answer will be.  Will those tanks stay or be returned to Canada, for others to train on or with?

 

[Red 6]

Ouch.  Can you say FASCAM?

Oh yeah, now you're talking. Repeat, over!

 

[tdwebste]

Mine Plows are quite heavy and change the whole feel of the tank for Driver's (it becomes very 'front heavy' and tends to 'plow into the ground' when going over rough ground (even in the raised position).  The Rollers are hard to drive with over any long distance, unless driving in Reverse.  The Rollers weight several Tonnes each, and are usually transported by truck and assembled (time intensive) when needed.  So the question is are they really required that much?  A tank really doesn't need either to break down walls.  Does the LC factor of having plows on the front have any validity?  Yes and No.  They look mean....or make a mean looking tank look meaner...... but is that enough?

Pearson Engineering has a vehicle integration system with hydraulic jettison and quick attach. http://www.pearson-eng.com/products/viewProduct.aspx?id=15&type=m

I am aware of some research into steerable pushed implements designed for use with either tracked or wheeled vehicles. I will be better able to provide more information about the system in a few months. The remaining concern is lifting or jettison/quick reattaching the implements for mobility in tight quarters.

 

[George Wallace]

Ah! Yes!  Explosive Bolts!  Right on!


There is a lot of modifications that have to be done to the hull to attach Mine Rollers or Mine Plows.  Let's simplify it some.  Your neighbour has a snow plow on his truck.  He has gone to Arizona for the winter and you want to use it, but his truck is in Arizona.  How are you going to attach his plow to your car?  Now add the factor that you have a Rental.

 

[Mortar guy]

GAP - there was talk of leaving some of our Leo C2s in theatre to handle the mine plow/rollers but there has been firm direction from on high: "no mixed fleet".

As to mounting our current inventory on the Leo 2A6s, it can't be done (well, not without a huge expenditure/effort).

George - I would say yes, we do need the plows and rollers over there. Not to get into too many details (OPSEC), but the plows are used extensively to breach everything from minefields (old soviet ones) to grape fields. Also, the rollers have "proven" their worth at least once, if you catch my drift.


MG

 

[geo]

The directive of "no mixed fleet" is all fine and good... but the phasing out of the C2s can be dragged out a little bit.  Get your hands on a couple of our newish Leo2 A4s work on them to take plows and rollers & get em out to KAF soonest... early enough to cross path with the last of the C2 going out.

 

[Mortar guy]

Good plan but someone has to crew them and the OC of the Armd Sqn would have a hard time crewing his new 2A6s and the old C2s at the same time. There's also the issue of parts scaling as they will soon stop sending C2 parts into theatre. Finally, if the MSM got wind of this plan, they would scream bloody murder, asking why we bought new tanks that don't even fully replace the capacities of the old ones.

Nonetheless, I am sure that as soon as we can, we will modify our Dutch 2A6s to take plows and rollers and get them into theatre (if it isn't too late).

MG

 

[geo]

Time will tell I guess, time will tell.

 

[mover1]

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/National/2007/08/17/4424929-sun.html

So do tank drivers wear pilot wings now?

 

[Reccesoldier]

Just a small point, tanks don't have "pilots".  They have a Crew Commander, Loader, Gunner and Driver.

Isn't the media supposed to check its facts?  Perhaps a minor detail but an irritant. 

Oh come on... You KNOW you want to be a Leo2 Pilot... Fess up! ;D

 

[Spencer100]

Good plan but someone has to crew them and the OC of the Armd Sqn would have a hard time crewing his new 2A6s and the old C2s at the same time. There's also the issue of parts scaling as they will soon stop sending C2 parts into theatre. Finally, if the MSM got wind of this plan, they would scream bloody murder, asking why we bought new tanks that don't even fully replace the capacities of the old ones.


MG

OOOHHH  I did not think of the press angle.....why do we have to "fight" our own MSM and the enemy?  Decisions should be made for what is right for the mission?  I'm dreaming right?

 

[mover1]

Oh come on... You KNOW you want to be a Leo2 Pilot... Fess up! ;D

Naww been there done that, bought the t-shirt then sold it on ebay for 20 bucks along with a CAT coin for 45!

 

[Genetk44]

MG....surely its only a matter of time before the MSM or some hack from the opposition parties gets wind of this aspect. :rage:

 

[George Wallace]

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/National/2007/08/17/4424929-sun.html

So do tank drivers wear pilot wings now?

No.....but they tend to pretend they are pilots in the bar when wearing Crewsuits and all go "ga ga" over those Pilot visors for their helmets..... ;D

 

[Mortar guy]

MG....surely its only a matter of time before the MSM or some hack from the opposition parties gets wind of this aspect. :rage:

It might be, but please stop calling me Shirley.

MG

 

[Genetk44]

ooops.......sorry about that ....Sue ;D

 

[3rd Herd]

looks like some else is rethinking some of this:

....." Tanks were considered “nice to have,” said Maj. Gen. in the reserves Eyal Ben-Reuven. But Israel didn’t need that many, and several battalions were disbanded.

The army became so engrossed in fighting the intifada soldiers were taken off their tanks and sent to police the Palestinian territories.

Then, when 22- and 23-year-old tank commanders completed their compulsory military service and joined reserve units, it suddenly emerged they were not as good as older reservists, a tank company commander noted............"

http://www.upi.com/International_Security/Emerging_Threats/Analysis/2007/08/17/analysis_israel_turns_to_old_tech/9187/"Tanks

 

[TCBF]

"Skill-fade", like rust, never sleeps.