Canada/US Border Integrity Thread

[JLB50]

We’ll build a wall. We’ll make America pay for it.

But yeah. You can absolutely build fences. Just be prepared to spend a ton of time fixing and patrolling fences, because getting through most fences isn’t hard. And we have a much longer land border than the U.S. and Mexico.

Don’t get me wrong; build barriers where it makes sense to deter and canalize. But also be prepared to deal with tens of thousands who’ll just send it anyway.

Sorry, B, I missed your post. You beat me to it.

 

[QV]

We’ll build a wall. We’ll make America pay for it.

But yeah. You can absolutely build fences. Just be prepared to spend a ton of time fixing and patrolling fences, because getting through most fences isn’t hard. And we have a much longer land border than the U.S. and Mexico.

Don’t get me wrong; build barriers where it makes sense to deter and canalize. But also be prepared to deal with tens of thousands who’ll just send it anyway.

I think this is the point FJ is making... it's the "well someone will wreck the fence or climb it... so why bother?"

Build a proper fence - monitor it - repair as necessary. This is far better than the do nothing COA right now.

 

[QV]

I think a lot of people wouldn't GAF. The myth that some Canadian Mujahideen will rise up to take on Uncle Sam is just that, a myth.

I personally want a 100% open border and an economic union like the EU. That would be peak awesomeness.


Dude, places like Queens Park & Ottawa don't even want to invest any money North of highway 7 and we are less than a days drive from the centre of the universe.... ToRoNTo!

The people saying this the loudest are the least capable to do so.

 

[GR66]

How about loud speakers blaring Chrystia Freeland's voice at the border...that should be enough to turn away all but the most committed illegal immigrants!

 

[brihard]

I think this is the point FJ is making... it's the "well someone will wreck the fence or climb it... so why bother?"

Build a proper fence - monitor it - repair as necessary. This is far better than the do nothing COA right now.

The point he’s trying to make keeps shifting. First it was “send them all back right away”, to which I pointed out there’s no reason for the U.S. to let us ship them back once they cross over. Then it was “well stop them from coming in”; I pointed out police can’t physically stop them til they’re on our soil. Then it was “well tell them not to cross”; to which I basically said “no shit, what do you think police at Roxham did?” Then it’s “build a fence”. Yes. But that’s a long border to cover and obstacles have limited value on their own. Finally, “load them on planes and send them back”. That I can’t speak to, save for knowing we cannot unilaterally send planes full of police and prisoners into other countries without their agreement.

Needless to say it’s not a simple problem. But it is ours to work. This all started with me suggesting Trump has no reason to help us given that it’s the people he least desires who would be crossing northbound into Canada.

 

[Remius]

And here I thought Trump had an issue with migrants going into his country from ours. Maybe THEY should be doing something about it like some here expect us to…

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The point he’s trying to make keeps shifting. First it was “send them all back right away”, to which I pointed out there’s no reason for the U.S. to let us ship them back once they cross over. Then it was “well stop them from coming in”; I pointed out police can’t physically stop them til they’re on our soil. Then it was “well tell them not to cross”; to which I basically said “no shit, what do you think police at Roxham did?” Then it’s “build a fence”. Yes. But that’s a long border to cover and obstacles have limited value on their own. Finally, “load them on planes and send them back”. That I can’t speak to, save for knowing we cannot unilaterally send planes full of police and prisoners into other countries without their agreement.

Needless to say it’s not a simple problem. But it is ours to work. This all started with me suggesting Trump has no reason to help us given that it’s the people he least desires who would be crossing northbound into Canada.

At least I'm coming up with ideas. Maybe they work, maybe they don't. Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen you offer any solution for consideration. Just a bunch of "you can't do that". Let's hear your solutions or how you would handle it. Don't turn it back on me because you only want to be a bucket of cold water.

My point keeps shifting because, when there is a roadblock, I offer something else for consideration. I'm not an expert, like you. All I can do is offer suggestions. "You can't do that," OK, let's try something else." "You can't do that either." Right, how about this?

See how that works?

 

[brihard]

And here I thought Trump had an issue with migrants going into his country from ours. Maybe THEY should be doing something about it like some here expect us to…

Right. Reality is Canada will throw a bunch of money and bodies at the border and in actuality it’ll mostly end up postured to prevent asylum flow coming north.

 

[brihard]

At least I'm coming up with ideas. Maybe they work, maybe they don't. Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen you offer any solution for consideration. Just a bunch of "you can't do that". Let's hear your solutions or how you would handle it. Don't turn it back on me because you only want to be a bucket of cold water.

I never entered the discussion pretending to have any solution to shifting US policy driving people north across the border to seek asylum. I simply said I have no blind faith in Trump and have no reason to think for a second he’d act in our interests against his own. You offered a variety of ideas that, for reasons I pointed out, likely aren’t viable or realistic.

This is one of those situations where you’re sharing a mattress with an elephant, and you can’t help feeling when it rolls over.

You want to know what I think off the cuff? Try to negotiate such that we can return people back south. Demand that as a quid pro quo for us working to stop people crossing from our side. Greatly restrict the possibility of lawful status to those who do cross and get processed at a port of entry. Significantly boost resources to CBSA, IRCC, RCMP, and IRB to enhance enforcement between ports of entry and to greatly speed up apprehension, asylum/immigration claims processing and adjudications, and removals where warranted. Be prepared for the reality that a lot of people will be on our soil for quite a while or indefinitely, and identify economic off-ramps for those who have some real potential value to challenged sectors of our labour market. Adequately resource integration services and supports for those who cannot ultimately be removed.

None of that is terribly thought out; I pondered it as I typed.

Problem is that ultimately boils down to a bunch more government jobs for a few years, more program spending, and more foreigners in Canada for the shorter or longer term. At best that’s not very great, and for a lot of people most of that isn’t palatable at all.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

That is my end state also. I didn't want to tie it to the EU. We can do without the Gnomes of Brussels.

I am thinking about an EU type economic union without the Brussels bozos involved. The EUs biggest problem is there are just too many Countries involved.

We already have NORAD as a joint HQ, let's expand that to include Customs & Border Patrol, Collective Defence, etc. Canada's biggest problem is we are diametrically opposed Worldview to the Americans. It really shifted though when we rejected BMD.

I also will admit that I am a big believer in American Capitalism and look at closer integration with the United States through that lense.

 

[brihard]

The EU is multilateral. No one country dominates. No country has more than 18.6% of the total population or 24.2% of GDP (both Germany). They are an integrated union with relatively greater political equality.

An economic union between Canada and the U.S. wouldn’t stand a chance of being that. It would be utterly US dominated. We would have little to no meaningful say over most implicated policies.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The EU is multilateral. No one country dominates. No country has more than 18.6% of the total population or 24.2% of GDP (both Germany). They are an integrated union with relatively greater political equality.

An economic union between Canada and the U.S. wouldn’t stand a chance of being that. It would be utterly US dominated. We would have little to no meaningful say over most implicated policies.

And that is different from the current situation in what way?

 

[KevinB]

Are you talking a friendly visit, or...

Bit of both

 

[dimsum]

The only thing to slow down the northern bound Trumpites might be a lack of snow tires.

Given what I’ve seen of their winter driving skills, I think that may be more of an effect than one may think

 

[Remius]

Given what I’ve seen of their winter driving skills, I think that may be more of an effect than one may think

The weather really should be factored into our NATO defence spending total.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Given what I’ve seen of their winter driving skills, I think that may be more of an effect than one may think

An ex girlfriend of mine was a southern girl who'd learned to drive while living in Wisconsin. Her company moved her to North Carolina. And on more than one occasion during winters there she was the only person to make it into to work.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The EU is multilateral. No one country dominates. No country has more than 18.6% of the total population or 24.2% of GDP (both Germany). They are an integrated union with relatively greater political equality.

An economic union between Canada and the U.S. wouldn’t stand a chance of being that. It would be utterly US dominated. We would have little to no meaningful say over most implicated policies.

The EU is dominated by Germany and France, and they don't want that to change. We would be just like Greece, without the beaches.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Thankfully we don't have it as bad as this

 

[Quirky]

Thankfully we don't have it as bad as this

https://twitter.com/x/status/825438460265762816

 

[OldSolduer]

You want to know what I think off the cuff? Try to negotiate such that we can return people back south. Demand that as a quid pro quo for us working to stop people crossing from our side. Greatly restrict the possibility of lawful status to those who do cross and get processed at a port of entry. Significantly boost resources to CBSA, IRCC, RCMP, and IRB to enhance enforcement between ports of entry and to greatly speed up apprehension, asylum/immigration claims processing and adjudications, and removals where warranted. Be prepared for the reality that a lot of people will be on our soil for quite a while or indefinitely, and identify economic off-ramps for those who have some real potential value to challenged sectors of our labour market. Adequately resource integration services and supports for those who cannot ultimately be removed.

And maybe stop the people that run the illegal immigrant transport network of human smuggling.