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CAF Security Forces [Split from RCN Anti Drone Weapon]

Within the MP Group, there are already some diverse units and capabilities:

CFPSU
MPSS
CFNCIU

There is also an Air Marshall service attached to 1st Cdn Div.

A new security forces unit could be force generated. This would necessitate hiring some additional MPs and no doubt, paying more than we currently do.
Except that the leadership of the MP branch has managed to convince the leadership of the CAF and DND that they are a POLICE organization, and therefore not subject to taking direction from the Chain Of Command. I have personal experience in this regard

No Wing Commander responsible for valuable/security sensitive equipment that the US sells us with the understanding that we not “guard” it with 70 year old men/women is going to trust an MP CoC who feels that setting up a speed trap at the front gate is more important than guarding the QRA. Simply put- the RCAF has been burned too many times by the mP branch (see what I did there) to trust them again. Plus they are the worst paid police organization in Canada and are hemorrhaging people. Better to have an smaller mP branch that just does policing and a tailor made security force for each the RCN and RCAF that actually work for those two Commanders so there is no dilution of responsibilty.
 
As well as US personnel too
There is no record of uniformed, armed US security personnel in North Bay and I assume La Macaza was the same. USAF personnel, yes, since the warheads were technically under US control.

I know nothing about military organization but honestly don't see the need to set up a separate entity. Separate internal division, sure. Police services, other than the very small, have internal division of training, skills and responsibilities. If it is a deployed service, not everything will be physically present in every location. If the uniformed MP service has devolved to a glorified security guard service, change it back.

Or would it just be more cost effective and simpler to house the aircraft at close to the border US bases?
Or just contract Canadian military responsibilities to the US and be done with it. Calling oneself a sovereign nation has its costs.
 
Just a thought but if we’re ditching British Naval traditions does that mean we should accept that the Canadian Army (1867) is senior to the RCN (1911)?

Shooting Shots Fired GIF by Call of Duty
 
Within the MP Group, there are already some diverse units and capabilities:

CFPSU
MPSS
CFNCIU

There is also an Air Marshall service attached to 1st Cdn Div.

A new security forces unit could be force generated. This would necessitate hiring some additional MPs and no doubt, paying more than we currently do.

MPs have divested CFNCIU to CFINTCOM. CAF has stood up a Counter Intelligence Operator trade. Not every MP has remustered yet (I don’t know if all will or if they’re grandfather). But CI has been expressly recognized as not ideally placed within MP group.
 
MPs have divested CFNCIU to CFINTCOM. CAF has stood up a Counter Intelligence Operator trade. Not every MP has remustered yet (I don’t know if all will or if they’re grandfather). But CI has been expressly recognized as not ideally placed within MP group.
Can confirm. I work extensively with the local CFNCIU. They are “MP”s, but not badged police officers. They are all remustering to the new trade.
 
MPs have divested CFNCIU to CFINTCOM. CAF has stood up a Counter Intelligence Operator trade. Not every MP has remustered yet (I don’t know if all will or if they’re grandfather). But CI has been expressly recognized as not ideally placed within MP group.
LOL, that's news to me so I googled it and it turns out it's a very recent change. I guess the MPs really don't want to exist 😄
 
Except that the leadership of the MP branch has managed to convince the leadership of the CAF and DND that they are a POLICE organization, and therefore not subject to taking direction from the Chain Of Command. I have personal experience in this regard

No Wing Commander responsible for valuable/security sensitive equipment that the US sells us with the understanding that we not “guard” it with 70 year old men/women is going to trust an MP CoC who feels that setting up a speed trap at the front gate is more important than guarding the QRA. Simply put- the RCAF has been burned too many times by the mP branch (see what I did there) to trust them again. Plus they are the worst paid police organization in Canada and are hemorrhaging people. Better to have an smaller mP branch that just does policing and a tailor made security force for each the RCN and RCAF that actually work for those two Commanders so there is no dilution of responsibilty.
Those are all fair comments. I am just wondering why the CAF didn't smash the MP CoC?
 
Remember the MP’s ‘needed’ to be independent due to their claims of command influence if they were not.

Meanwhile it was solely empire building.
Which is exactly what Intelligence Command is also doing 😄
 
etter to have an smaller mP branch that just does policing and a tailor made security force for each the RCN and RCAF that actually work for those two Commanders so there is no dilution of responsibilty.
Or . . . turn policing over to the RCMP and revert the MPs to military security and field work. That will take care of the nasty chain of command problem.

Just a thought as I contemplate what other sacred cows to slaughter.

🍻
 
I recall, RV-81, watching then Col Ian Douglas (COS Ops of the lets pretend 1 DDN Div) explode when our 'division' traffic control 'system' failed before it began because the MPs had forgotten how to do it. We had grade 2 and 3 staff officers - using the (very useful) part of CAMT 1-36 (Canadian Army Manual of Training - Staff Duties in the Field) that explained how to do a traffic plan - doing MPs sergeant's' jobs!
Prior to 81 we frequently had MPs out on brigade exercised doing traffic control, route marking - all those things they did back in WW2. Much of that was because most of our MPs in the 70s were still the army ones from pre unification. I think at RV 81 they got overwhelmed by the scale of a divisional exercise and by that time had started to carve out a purple "policing" role for themselves in lieu of fieldcraft.

🍻
 
Or . . . turn policing over to the RCMP and revert the MPs to military security and field work. That will take care of the nasty chain of command problem.

Just a thought as I contemplate what other sacred cows to slaughter.

🍻
I wonder how many of the MP positions are operational policing, or direct support roles that would need to be done by a sworn officer? And what would conversion over to civilian police presence look like?

A local police department would likely not need to telco MPs at a 1 to 1 ratio, if normal policing ends up being rolled in with the rest of municipal prioritization; the alternative being dedicated bodies who solely and exclusively replace the MPs. So, a domestic in the PMQ patch in Petawawa would go in through OPP dispatch and be subject to triage along with any other ongoing OPP files in that area. Alternatively, the OPP establish and fund new positions at 1:1 and a gaggle of them only police CFB Petawawa. I’d suggest the former is much more likely, and CAF just pays for a few more positions based on call volume added to the detachment.

On the investigative side, does CFNIS convert entirely to, say, RCMP with a 1:1 replacement and fenced funding? Or do their files also get subjected to prioritization within the RCMP federal policing intake? Many NIS files would likely struggle to triage federally; at most they’d be akin to minor municipal drug trafficking files. So there’s probably not an existing template to drop this into.

Some of the ‘protective’ MP stuff - CP, Air Marshal - might have a more natural home within the new Security Force, and become a bit of a cookie to dangle those within the Security Force as a specialized career option. Or for reasons I’m not immediately thinking of, maybe those stay strict MP.

But I think all of this deserves a ground up assessment starting with a blank whiteboard.
 
James Wolfe was an Army Officer, he was responsible for the glorious victory at the Plains of Abraham.... they are clearly Army!!!! 😄

Marines never were nuffink but soldiers on boats.

The 'first official' unit of English naval infantry, originally called the Duke of York and Albany's Maritime Regiment of Foot and soon becoming known as the Admiral's Regiment, was formed on 28 October 1664, with an initial strength of 1,200 infantrymen recruited from the Trained Bands of London as part of the mobilisation for the Second Anglo-Dutch War. James (later King James VII & II), the Duke of York and Albany, Lord High Admiral and brother of King Charles II, was Captain-General of the Artillery Company, now the Honourable Artillery Company, the unit that trained the Trained Bands.
The Holland Regiment (later The Buffs) was also raised to serve at sea and both of these "Naval" regiments were paid for by the Treasurer of the Navy by Order of Council of 11 July 1665. John Churchill, later the 1st Duke of Marlborough, was a famous member of this regiment. A Company of Foot Guards served as Marines to augment the Marines of the Admiral's Regiment during the key sea battle the Battle of Solebay in 1672. The regiment was disbanded in 1689 shortly after James II was deposed in the Glorious Revolution
Two marine regiments of the army were raised in 1690. They were the Earl of Pembroke's and Torrington's, later Lord Berkeley's

In 1739/40 ten regiments of Marines were raised in the Army.
In 1747 they were transferred to the control of the Admiralty and they got a ranking in the Army list as well as Marines.
In 1748 they were disbanded and dispersed to Naval establishments and ships.
 
With respect to the business of securing places and securing things -

It seems to me that the RAF Regiment types with WMIKs and Mortars and Rapiers securing the airfields are doing a different job than the RAF Police, and the MOD Police, controlling access to Hangars, Towers, Control Rooms and other sensitive areas.

The RAF Regiment may kill you but they can't arrest you. Much like the Household Division.

And I will continue to plunk for a local element. Make them 10:90 units if it makes you feel better. With some portion of the 90 being on shift at any given time.

....


The Combat Readiness Force is the ground fighting force of the RAF. It fights to defend the RAF and enable Air and Space Operations wherever required.

The Combat Readiness Force is responsible for Airfield Defence, Air Force Protection Command and Control, Tactical Air Control, Counter Uncrewed Aerial Systems (C-UAS), the conceptual and experimental development of Air Force Protection, and high-threat pre-deployment training for all members of the RAF.

Although primarily formed from personnel from the RAF Regiment, crucially the force includes personnel from all professions, which support its operational outputs 365 days a year.



 
Is this C-UAS, Airfield Security, GBAD, C3 replacement, Port Security, RCN or RCAF security.....

Anyway

Hosted by the UK’s 7 Air Defence Group, GBAD Expo 24 was delivered by the two resident air defence regiments, 12 Regt RA. equipped with Short Range Air Defence (SHORAD) and 16 Regt RA that provides Medium Range Air Defence (MRAD) capability.
GBAD Expo 24 was designed to bring together the air defence community’s main players: manufacturers, decision makers and end users to focus on what is a continually and rapidly evolving critical battlespace requirement. Perhaps, and more importantly, the expo provided a platform through which to identify UK deficiencies and requirements, and what developments industry technologists may reveal to fill those gaps.

One industry attendee described the event as “the single largest gathering of the professional GBAD community in over a decade. Outstanding.”

The resulting high-intensity conflict of Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine has brought into stark reality that GBAD remains an indispensable component of warfare. It is against that complex and prolific threat that GBAD Expo 24 set out to generate a comprehensive response showcasing how that threat is being addressed today and how it will be tomorrow. As the principal organiser and event lead – Commanding Officer 12th Regiment Royal Artillery, Lt Col Martin Wells – said, “As the Field Army’s most operationally committed formation – the development of current and future Land GBAD capability must rise to meet the contemporary threat. The idea is to get a GBAD community; people who are influential in the GBAD environment in the same place at the same time to inform, educate and influence so we are having the right conversations at the right level to drive forward an essential capability in defence.”

The day was split into three stages: Fight Today, Fight Tonight and Fight Tomorrow, each reflecting a different facet in the development and potential of evolving GBAD systems.

Fight Today provided the opportunity for the British Army’s two air defence regiments to showcase their equipment and capabilities they field operationally world-wide in such locations as: Estonia on Operation Cabrit for the troops of 12 Regiment Royal Artillery with 16 Regiment Royal Artillery operating in Poland and the Falkland Islands.

Two Lance Bombardiers of 12 Regiment Royal Artillery spoke of their first-hand experience of engaging and destroying a one-way attack drone. “We were deployed overseas to help protect a base using a Star Streak Lightweight Multiple Launcher system to guard against any incoming drones. We acquired and tracked a hostile inbound target and then engaged it whist it was travelling more than 140mph – we got it with the first short.” What the team had successfully shot down was an unmanned aerial vehicle carrying an 85kg high-explosive payload that had it got through would have wreaked havoc within the camp. For their actions and recognising that pressurised shot the pair each received a commander’s award.

Also, on the Fight Today stands, and representing some of the most recent upgrades in the Army’s infantry anti-drone capabilities, were members of 3 Parachute Regiment. They were on site demonstrating the new drone tracking 4 x Smash Sight. The new sighting system that attaches to the standard issued SA80 individual weapon that effectively converts it into a highly accurate drone hunter that has been further enhanced by combining it with a 4 x magnifying capability.

Fight Tonight – looked at what equipment the British Army may look to acquire in the near future. On display was the VAMTAC Rapid Ranger mounted system. The Ministry of Defence is considering procuring six Rapid Rangers to replace the six Stormer vehicles that were gifted to Ukrainian forces back in 2022 with, perhaps further deliveries to follow. Also within the Fight Tonight was latest iteration of Sky Keeper, a C2 modular command and control battlespace management system that can be configured for a range of uses from an operations centre, down to a highly deployable hand-held tablet for more tactical situations.

Fight Tomorrow – provided a peek beyond the horizon and was perhaps the most exciting and revealing aspect of the day. Leading defence industry manufacturers explained and demonstrated their emerging technologies and developments being trialled, among them anti-drone developments such as the Dragon Fire, the laser directed energy weapon which can destroy drones at a fraction of the cost of guided missile systems with the use of high intensity laser beams.

In his address the Commander of 7 Air Defence Group, Colonel Stu Hay really summed up the significance of GBAD Expo 24, “Some vitally important decisions are about to be made now and over the next few weeks and months that will determine the UK’s ability to preserve and protect its combat power to fight and win wars on land.”


 
Just a thought but if we’re ditching British Naval traditions does that mean we should accept that the Canadian Army (1867) is senior to the RCN (1911)?
I organized a lining of the walkway at the Forks in Winnipeg for Her Majesty's visit in 2010. The Artillery were the senior Corps in the Army - and thus were senior to the RCN. No one argued that.
 
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