Cabinet Shuffle- (Wednesday 26 July).

[Kirkhill]

I know very little of national security legislation, but was peripherally involved in a public/judicial inquiry at the provincial level. Every person, agency or department that has standing gets to have legal representation - at public expense; and each counsel gets to examine every witness in order to represent their client's interests. When it comes down to a witness having to say to counsel 'I can't tell you that' or 'I can't produce that' (material evidence such as objects, documents and records typically has to be entered into evidence by a witness, if for no other reason, context), they will want assurance that they are not in contempt, and I can foresee every instance of that happening being subject to a voire dire or judicial review by the courts. In other words, horribly bogged down in procedure. The public servants who have carriage of classified information will not allow themselves to be cannon fodder for politicians or senior bureaucrats.

I doubt any manner of in camera vetting to alleviate some of this will satisfy the cover-up crowd.

Missouri, the show me state was settled by Scots.

"Let the deed shaw!"

I draw my own conclusions.

 

[YZT580]

The opposition refuses to sit at the grown up table where classified matters are properly examined and addressed. They cannot simultaneously clamp their hands over their ears, and also pretend to be taking the matter seriously. They’re putting politics over meaningful involvement in a major national security issue. It’s a profoundly disappointing lack of political maturity.

With that said, sitting as they are outside of government, they probably choose to see the issue entirely through an electoral lens and not a policy one. So be it, but colour me unimpressed.

maybe that is because they have been burnt on this type of issue before by somebody called Pierre. During the Hostage thing in Iran we were providing refuge for a bunch of americans and Trudeau kept attacking Clarke knowing that he couldn't say anything about it. Dirty politics but it helped win him the next election. So it is no surprise that the current Pierre wants nothing to do with a briefing that ties him down

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I very much doubt that anyone in the current Trudeau clique remembers that, especially Trudeau Jr. himself, who was 8 years old at the time.

But I was, and I was a "Clarkie". The Iran crisis had nothing to do with his downfall, nor was he ever attacked on it by Trudeau senior. The Iran crisis started in early November 1979 with the taking of the US Embassy and ended more than a year later. The Canadian caper took place in the first two months of it and it involved so few people in Canada with so few in the know that it was one of the best kept secret in Ottawa until the Americans were out. No one in the opposition parties ever knew of it, and only a few ministers from the government knew of it. It had nothing to do with Clark's government downfall which occurred about one month after the beginning of the Iran crisis.

Clark was attacked (constantly) by Trudeau senior on three aspects, only one of which was on external affairs: (1) the proposed sale of Petrocan, (2) the bumbling way he handled the proposed moving of the Canadian embassy from Tel-Aviv to Jerusalem and (3) and most important, the proposed extra .04$ gas tax in his first budget, which led to the no-confidence vote.

 

[Good2Golf]

and (3) and most important, the proposed extra .04$ gas tax in his first budget, which led to the no-confidence vote.

4¢/L!!!! Preposterous! Imagine if someone tried that today…

 

[Remius]

338Canada Canada | Poll Analysis & Electoral Projections

338canada.com

Massive change in seat count projections. I doubt that the cabinet shuffle is a factor in that change but I am sure it is a result of what the LPC is seing. Given the shuffle and what looks like a pivot to the economy it is likely worrying them and we won’t have an election for some time I think.

We’ll see in the coming weeks if this is a trend or not.

 

[YZT580]

I very much doubt that anyone in the current Trudeau clique remembers that, especially Trudeau Jr. himself, who was 8 years old at the time.

But I was, and I was a "Clarkie". The Iran crisis had nothing to do with his downfall, nor was he ever attacked on it by Trudeau senior. The Iran crisis started in early November 1979 with the taking of the US Embassy and ended more than a year later. The Canadian caper took place in the first two months of it and it involved so few people in Canada with so few in the know that it was one of the best kept secret in Ottawa until the Americans were out. No one in the opposition parties ever knew of it, and only a few ministers from the government knew of it. It had nothing to do with Clark's government downfall which occurred about one month after the beginning of the Iran crisis.

Clark was attacked (constantly) by Trudeau senior on three aspects, only one of which was on external affairs: (1) the proposed sale of Petrocan, (2) the bumbling way he handled the proposed moving of the Canadian embassy from Tel-Aviv to Jerusalem and (3) and most important, the proposed extra .04$ gas tax in his first budget, which led to the no-confidence vote.

your memory and mine differ. We were told that Pierre was briefed on the embassy situation and used that info. to pressure Clarke on his apparent do nothing whilst the crisis was unfolding, knowing that he couldn't say what was really happening. With your info I guess I will have to change my thoughts

 

[Haggis]

338Canada Canada | Poll Analysis & Electoral Projections

338canada.com

Massive change in seat count projections. I doubt that the cabinet shuffle is a factor in that change but I am sure it is a result of what the LPC is seing. Given the shuffle and what looks like a pivot to the economy it is likely worrying them and we won’t have an election for some time I think.

We’ll see in the coming weeks if this is a trend or not.

During the shuffle, Trudeau said that the Supply and Confidence Agreement marriage of convenience remains in place and we will not have an election before 2025 (unless the polls suddenly show I can get my majority).

 

[Good2Golf]

338Canada Canada | Poll Analysis & Electoral Projections

338canada.com

Massive change in seat count projections. I doubt that the cabinet shuffle is a factor in that change but I am sure it is a result of what the LPC is seing. Given the shuffle and what looks like a pivot to the economy it is likely worrying them and we won’t have an election for some time I think.

We’ll see in the coming weeks if this is a trend or not.

Interesting details in the most recent Abacus polling data…first time I’ve seen the female vote intention pivot to an overall negative against Trudeau…

Conservatives lead by 10 before federal cabinet shuffle - Abacus Data

%

abacusdata.ca

 

[brihard]

Tangential but maybe relevant: BC ports workers voted again Friday night to shoot down a proposed collective agreement, placing the operations of BC ports at risk again. It looks like the federal government is about to potentially impose binding arbitration (or other measures- but probably binding arbitration). This is a pretty firm push back on organized labour, and, depending on how workers respond (e.g., wildcat strike?) could turn up the pressure on NDP. NDP already committed themselves to resisting back to work legislation earlier on in this.

This could be nothing, or it could be a powder keg issue where the government has to take a side between labour, and critical economic infrastructure. Worth watching.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1685361600100798464

 

[Fishbone Jones]

 

[Remius]

Interesting details in the most recent Abacus polling data…first time I’ve seen the female vote intention pivot to an overall negative against Trudeau…

View attachment 79158

Conservatives lead by 10 before federal cabinet shuffle - Abacus Data

%

abacusdata.ca

This i think can be linked to PP’s sudden shift to a softer remade look. Taking questions a bit more from media etc etc.

Despite some people here being offended by the fact that a few of us have said he needs to change his tone and image, it seems to possibly be working.

Hire a PR and makeover consultant, be less angry and maybe people will listen a bit more and see you as a viable alternative.

 

[OldSolduer]

This i think can be linked to PP’s sudden shift to a softer remade look. Taking questions a bit more from media etc etc.

Despite some people here being offended by the fact that a few of us have said he needs to change his tone and image, it seems to possibly be working.

Hire a PR and makeover consultant, be less angry and maybe people will listen a bit more and see you as a viable alternative.

Who remembers or knows of the Stanfield/Trudeau Sr election battle? A picture can be worth a thousand words....

https://parli.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/PARLI-STANFIELD.jpg

Get Justin to play football and take pics of him dropping the ball...

 

[daftandbarmy]

This i think can be linked to PP’s sudden shift to a softer remade look. Taking questions a bit more from media etc etc.

Despite some people here being offended by the fact that a few of us have said he needs to change his tone and image, it seems to possibly be working.

Hire a PR and makeover consultant, be less angry and maybe people will listen a bit more and see you as a viable alternative.

But that wouldn't work for....

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Tangential but maybe relevant: BC ports workers voted again Friday night to shoot down a proposed collective agreement, placing the operations of BC ports at risk again. It looks like the federal government is about to potentially impose binding arbitration (or other measures- but probably binding arbitration). This is a pretty firm push back on organized labour, and, depending on how workers respond (e.g., wildcat strike?) could turn up the pressure on NDP. NDP already committed themselves to resisting back to work legislation earlier on in this.

This could be nothing, or it could be a powder keg issue where the government has to take a side between labour, and critical economic infrastructure. Worth watching.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1685361600100798464

Yea the port workers are dreaming they are going to get better than what was offered.

 

[dimsum]

This i think can be linked to PP’s sudden shift to a softer remade look. Taking questions a bit more from media etc etc.

Despite some people here being offended by the fact that a few of us have said he needs to change his tone and image, it seems to possibly be working.

Hire a PR and makeover consultant, be less angry and maybe people will listen a bit more and see you as a viable alternative.

...and if he wins the election and forms govt, have a Pikachu face reaction when some of his more right-wing base condemn him for "selling out" to the Centrists, a la Erin O'Toole.

 

[brihard]

...and if he wins the election and forms govt, have a Pikachu face reaction when some of his more right-wing base condemn him for "selling out" to the Centrists, a la Erin O'Toole.

The CPC needs to excise that fringe of the party that insists on eating itself.

 

[OldSolduer]

The CPC needs to excise that fringe of the party that insists on eating itself.

I agree with that. They are a millstone around the neck of the CPC and insist on dragging the party down with them.

 

[Blackadder1916]

I very much doubt that anyone in the current Trudeau clique remembers that, especially Trudeau Jr. himself, who was 8 years old at the time.

But I was, and I was a "Clarkie". The Iran crisis had nothing to do with his downfall, nor was he ever attacked on it by Trudeau senior. The Iran crisis started in early November 1979 with the taking of the US Embassy and ended more than a year later. The Canadian caper took place in the first two months of it and it involved so few people in Canada with so few in the know that it was one of the best kept secret in Ottawa until the Americans were out. No one in the opposition parties ever knew of it, and only a few ministers from the government knew of it. It had nothing to do with Clark's government downfall which occurred about one month after the beginning of the Iran crisis.

Clark was attacked (constantly) by Trudeau senior on three aspects, only one of which was on external affairs: (1) the proposed sale of Petrocan, (2) the bumbling way he handled the proposed moving of the Canadian embassy from Tel-Aviv to Jerusalem and (3) and most important, the proposed extra .04$ gas tax in his first budget, which led to the no-confidence vote.

your memory and mine differ. We were told that Pierre was briefed on the embassy situation and used that info. to pressure Clarke on his apparent do nothing whilst the crisis was unfolding, knowing that he couldn't say what was really happening. With your info I guess I will have to change my thoughts

Memories, memories . . .

How about both being right?

My memory is similar to @Oldgateboatdriver. The February 1980 federal election was fought on the the three points he listed, but primarily on Clark's budget and gas tax ("short term pain for long term gain"). The Clark government's public handling of the Iran hostage situation wasn't a big issue in the minds of the Canadian electorate. If it had been, the publicity and plaudits that surrounded the end-January escape of the Canadian Caper Americans would have had a greater effect on the outcome 18 days later of the February 1980 federal election that returned Trudeau to premiership.

That being said, the leader of the opposition (Pierre Trudeau) did raise questions in the House about the government's on-going handling of the issue. The Hansard index for that session indicates such.



While we may have become accustomed to the sound bite vitriol that passes for acceptable parliamentary debate these days, forty years ago members of the house usually had a tighter hold on their tongues (not always, but more than today). What PET said in the house back then on the subject was:

House of Commons Debates, 31st Parliament, 1st ... - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources

House of Commons Debates, 31st Parliament, 1st Session : Vol. 2

parl.canadiana.ca

House of Commons Debates, 31st Parliament, 1st ... - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources

House of Commons Debates, 31st Parliament, 1st Session : Vol. 2

parl.canadiana.ca

House of Commons Debates, 31st Parliament, 1st ... - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources

House of Commons Debates, 31st Parliament, 1st Session : Vol. 2

parl.canadiana.ca

House of Commons Debates, 31st Parliament, 1st ... - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources

House of Commons Debates, 31st Parliament, 1st Session : Vol. 2

parl.canadiana.ca

Of course, Hansard doesn't always tell the full story. (hear, hear)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...n-caper/83b83e17-18a4-45dc-b6cc-ac419a633c71/

. . .
Former prime minister Pierre Trudeau, the Liberal Party leader who opposes Clark in the upcoming federal election, begrudgingly complimented his rival's government, even though he has attacked Clark persistently in past weeks for not giving strong enough support to the United States.

As the opposition leader, Trudeau was consulted several times in recent weeks about Canada's mission in Tehran. According to one report, Clark walked across the floor of the House of Commons during one of Trudeau's outbursts in mid-November and reminded the former prime minister of the Iranian venture.
. . .

 

[Kirkhill]

Who remembers or knows of the Stanfield/Trudeau Sr election battle? A picture can be worth a thousand words....

https://parli.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/PARLI-STANFIELD.jpg

Get Justin to play football and take pics of him dropping the ball...

I was thinking about that the other night...
Along with images of purple dinosaurs, water spouts up the back side and scary magazine covers.

Trying to decide if those were information, misinformation, disinformation or propaganda.

 

[Kirkhill]

The CPC needs to excise that fringe of the party that insists on eating itself.

You excise your fringe first....