BGen Ménard relieved of Afganistan Comd & other fall-outs

[Gunner98]

I don't like people telling me what I and another consenting adult do in their off time. Though honestly I did get the best work while I was  screwing my boss. I see your point. Maybe the publicity is a bit much though.

So when do you think a TF Comd has any "off time" in a combat zone?  The concepts of publicity and transparency should not be confused.

 

[Navalsnpr]

Actually my old section commander married her. I did sleep with my boss once. In the end it was messy. When she tried to get me fired

Did your boss have the ability to send you into harms way? Probably not.

I don't like people telling me what I and another consenting adult do in their off time.

Time off??  We only take time off when the Taliban do.. which is never.... Time off = Guard down = Bad things happen

 

[xena]

For what it's worth Mr Campbell, I heartily agree with your assesment.

 

[The Bread Guy]

When she tried to get me fired I got a great package once all the info came out.

Suggesting this wasn't such a right thing to do, no?

 

[Navalsnpr]

Obstructing Justice would imply by actions or in-actions he potentially affected or could have affected the outcome of a Legal Investigation.

 

[Nemo888]

Suggesting this wasn't such a right thing to do, no?

Hadn't really thought about it for twenty years. But yes she did go overboard when she got dumped. I don't think the problem was the relationship. But in hindsight I think I got preferential treatment. She bad mouthed me after I dumped her and tried to get me fired. I took the package. Which was generous because I hadn't really done anything wrong except get drunk and do my boss. If she had been more mature about it I think it would have been fine. But I don't  think that is possible for most people.

I shudder to think where she would have sent me in a combat theatre. OK, changed my mind. Bad idea!

 

[dapaterson]

Personal opinion, because I'm too long retired to know about Mil Law anymore: were I a member of a court I might be inclined to view the (main or alternative) "conduct to the prejudice" charges as being issues of human failure or human weakness that, while involving a breach of regulations by a senior officer who must have known better, are 'understandable' as human failings that require only a modest punishment - presuming the charges are proven.

Obstruction of justice appears, to me anyway, to be a more serious. Without having read the charge sheet I might feel that we are talking about a general officer lying to investigators, trying to cover up and so on. As a member of a court, I might consider that an issue that, assuming again that the charges are proven, warrants very serious punishment, indeed.

Note that the panel (assuming a trial by a panel and not by judge alone - a decision that now rests with the defence) decides guilt or innocence only; sentencing is the exclusive purview of the military judge, based on case law and submissions from the prosecution and the defence.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

News Room
Brigadier-General Ménard To Face Court Martial
NR-10.137 - November 23, 2010

OTTAWA – Brigadier-General Daniel Ménard will face a Court Martial in relation to charges of inappropriate conduct.  Charges were laid in July 2010 following allegations made in May 2010 while Brig.-Gen. Ménard was the Task Force Commander in Afghanistan.

Following referral to the Canadian Forces Director of Military Prosecutions (DMP), the charges facing Brig.-Gen. Ménard were reviewed and subsequently brought forward or “preferred” to Court Martial.

The charges facing Brig.-Gen. Ménard are:

■two counts of conduct to the prejudice of good order and discipline, laid in the alternative, contrary to section 129 of the National Defence Act (NDA), related to alleged inappropriate conduct as outlined in the Canadian Forces Personal Relationships and Fraternization directives; and

■four counts of obstructing justice contrary to section 130 of the NDA, pursuant to section 139(2) of the Criminal Code of Canada.

The Court Martial Administrator will convene the Court Martial at the first available date and at a location to be determined.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Lets say he is found guilty.

Through out his career he's undoubtedly charged (presided over, found guilty?) other members of the CF with these same kind of infractions.  Does that mean any trial he's been involved in gets reviewed?

 

[riggermade]

When I was a Mcpl I had a WO screwing a Cpl and it caused nothing but problems in the unit.  She was a very sub par Cpl and I was selected to write her PER...believe me the final draft of her PER did not go her way but it caused alot of problems when he tried to screw me and I wouldn't back down

 

[The Bread Guy]

Although Rosie DiManno's been good at getting the word out about the troops' hard work downrange, I have to say I disagree with her on this one:

Forty years for fornication?

Golly. Why not just give the poor guy 40 lashes, Taliban-style? I mean, if we’re going to get all punitively hysterical about it.

Ex-colonel Russell Williams killed two women and got life in prison with no parole eligibility for 25 years, which is as far as the Criminal Code will extend unless a felon is formally deemed to be a “dangerous offender.’’

Brig. Gen. Daniel Menard allegedly made love to a woman in uniform — or, presumably, out of uniform — and some people are tossing around the prospect of rotting behind bars: consecutive maximum sentences that could, theoretically, add up to 40 years before the mast, hoisted by his own petard.

It’s preposterous, of course ....

 

[Infanteer]

Ms Dimanno should note that the charges that feature the possibility of jail time having nothing to do with fornication, but rather trying to use rank to convince others to cover up an investigation - far more serious (IMO).

 

[aesop081]

  Does that mean any trial he's been involved in gets reviewed?

I wouldnt think not. Those events and his current situtation would be unrelated. The evidence in those cases would not cease to be evidence because Menard was found guilty of something 20 years later.

 

[Journeyman]

Although Rosie DiManno's been good at getting the word out about the troops' hard work downrange......

DiManno decided only recently that she's OK with soldiers.....but only after opinion polls showed Canadians support the troops.

But she cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, be mistaken for a credible journalist.
For example:

Thing is, no military historian I contacted Wednesday could recall an instance of a soldier actually brought to trial for having sex with a subordinate....

A competent military historian would have pointed out that the chain of command has administrative tools (eg - C&P, Recorded Warnings, etc) in addition to legal proceedings under the National Defence Act. The overwhelming majority of punishments/corrective actions meted out by the military are administrative rather than Summary Trials or Courts Martial. Records of Courts Martial are readily available online; administrative punishments are not.

She's aghast that Ménard was removed from command, yet quotes Drapeau as saying,

"In my experience with the military, this kind of situation was always handled privately. Sometimes they’re recalled from a diplomatic posting or removed from a command position."

I guess she can't even be bothered reading her own garbage.

The former relates to a five-month fling Menard had with a subordinate (a word I really don’t like in the context of intimate relations);

That she somehow believes that this is some feminist liberation issue, rather than a superior/subordinate command issue within an operational theatre, speaks volumes to the competency she brings to her reporting. If she was a member of this site, the Mods would have told her to "stay in her lane" some time ago.

:

 

[dapaterson]

But she cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, be mistaken for a credible journalist.
For example:A competent military historian would have pointed out that the chain of command has administrative tools (eg - C&P, Recorded Warnings, etc) in addition to legal proceedings under the National Defence Act. The overwhelming majority of punishments/corrective actions meted out by the military are administrative rather than Summary Trials or Courts Martial. Records of Courts Martial are readily available online; administrative punishments are not.

Man!  How did you ever become such a wellspring of knowledge on this topic?  And is there training others could take to gain this depth and breadth of knowledge?

 

[Journeyman]

Man!  How did you ever become such a wellspring of knowledge on this topic?  And is there training others could take to gain this depth and breadth of knowledge?

I know you'd be shocked to learn this, but much of my knowledge of administrative and summary trial punishments was gained by standing in front of a desk -- sometimes as "escort to the guilty bastard"....and sometimes without the comforting warmth provided by headdress. 

 

[George Wallace]

Ah!  Yes.  Back in the day where one would never expect to make the rank and appointment of RSM unless they had done time in DB.    ;D

 

[Haggis]

Ah!  Yes.  Back in the day where one would never expect to make the rank and appointment of RSM unless they had done time in DB.    ;D

So, I should've pled "Not Guilty"?  (Not like it would've mattered....)

 

[vonGarvin]

So, I should've pled "Not Guilty"?  (Not like it would've mattered....)

Now, if it were Court Martial, then yes, you should have.  If it were Summary Trial, then you should not have admitted to the particulars of each charge.  ;D

 

[Haggis]

Now, if it were Court Martial, then yes, you should have.  If it were Summary Trial, then you should not have admitted to the particulars of each charge.  ;D

Well that didn't work either.