Bemoaning The Lack of Sports in The CF? [merged thread]

[Biggoals2bdone]

I totally agree that there would be some minimal expenditures, but lets be honest money gets spent already on all kinds of silly stuff.

Not only does it help the morale, it also connects us with others in the military as others have pointed out, but further then that it also connects us to members of other militaries possibly, that we would compete against.

I'll also add that I think it comes down to bias and lack of education in some cases.
Example: There's a bench press competition every year in Petawawa, when the officer running the whole thing was asked why its bench only, and not a full powerlifting meet i.e squat, bench, deadlift, he responded with the Base commander said its to dangerous and won't agree to it, BUT how many guys get hurt playing hockey or rugby or competing in the Ironman...hell they even have pugil stick competition...how is that more dangerous then lifting a barbell (something a lot of us do on our own time anyway)


It has been my personal experience that CoC's i've had in the past would only support career themed PT request (i.e i'm training for CSOR/JTF2/SAR tech selection) or something that has to do with running/triathlons/marathons or unit sports.


dumb expenditures...redoing the hardwood floors of the courts...only to go ruin them by playing hockey on them when there are 3 field houses you can use isntead, and that means having to redo the hardwood floors again...

I'll also add that in my mind, if I heard more stories out there about how we have athletes at the olympics or Pan-Am or other big competitions who are also serving members in the military that would boost the image of the military.  You can't deny that having world class athletes wouldn't change the general publics opinion a bit.

I also think combative sports such as BJJ, Boxing, MMA, kickboxing should definitely be ENCOURAGED in the military, fostering that warrior ethos, and tradition.

I'm also surprised Track & Field isn't bigger in the military, as many events are in the wheelhouse of military members, and they are cheap competitions to put on.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I also think combative sports such as BJJ, Boxing, MMA, kickboxing should definitely be ENCOURAGED in the military, fostering that warrior ethos, and tradition.

That might fly in the face of harassment course you are required to take, along with taking time away from important things like, courses on how to design your e-mail Sig block to meet new TBS standards.

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

I have to ask if that's sarcasm or if those "courses" have actually happened to you?

Before I got in, after having watched to many military themed movies, I thought the military put an emphasis on fitness and sports, etc...in my time in i've come to realize they don't care, they are okay with fat out of shape troops, and providing us with low quality equipment to exercise with.

Also like you alluded to, they rather we go on these courses or what not that generally speaking are a waste of time since most people are just speeding through to get their check in the box.

 

[PuckChaser]

I also think combative sports such as BJJ, Boxing, MMA, kickboxing should definitely be ENCOURAGED in the military, fostering that warrior ethos, and tradition.

Close quarters combat Basic course should be added to the BMQ-L course.

BJJ and MMA are slowly making their way mainsteam, Pet is running another grappling championship this year. Its a slow moving train, but we'll get there.

 

[MJP]

I disagree that we have lost our sports/fitness culture.  I think our focus and emphasis has changed from the years prior when it comes to sports and athletics. I will agree partly with you in that I think we have a terrible instituitional attitude towards physical fitness writ large.  As for sports there are still robust local sports leauges for all manner of sports plus a number of regional, national and CISM sports competitions, including various Brigade and element ones (Ironman, Mtn man, RCAF run, Army Run).  They IMHO are more than enough to sate anyone's appetite when it comes to sports.

We are a small force with limited funds.  I would rather see the bulk of sports funding downloaded onto the center of mass rather than focusing on individuals/teams who are elite in their field.  We don't need people whose job is to do a sport.  There are better avenues for those folks to go down if they want to be full time athletes.  If anything creating a workforce where PT isn't the first thing sloughed off when things get a bit busy would be a step in the right direction.

Wrt MMA/Grappling and the like, I do agree there should be a move for more inclusion and acceptance, but it also boils downs to what do the troops want to do.  Hockey, soccer, softball, golf, volleyball, basketball and various other intramural type sports dominant their wants.  Very few want MMA, boxing, biathalon etc etc

 

[quadrapiper]

How much of the apparent shift can by tied to the move from internal PERI pers to PSP?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Wrt MMA/Grappling and the like, I do agree there should be a move for more inclusion and acceptance, but it also boils downs to what do the troops want to do.  Hockey, soccer, softball, golf, volleyball, basketball and various other intramural type sports dominant their wants.  Very few want MMA, boxing, biathalon etc etc

I agree. That's the secret of success behind a 'house sports league' approach. Everyone gets a chance to try their hand at everything.

And based on what kind of teams the troops want, you can engage with local civvy teams as part of a fun type of COMREL program. We frequently played rugby and soccer teams from a variety of local communities in various countries and it was good fun for everyone, especially when the 'British Army' lost!

 

[Michael OLeary]

How much of the apparent shift can by tied to the move from internal PERI pers to PSP?

By the time the PERIs disappeared, the only sports they were interested in were they ones they competed in. They contributed little to unit sports programs. PSP were just better building managers because they weren't allowed to spend most of the work time practicing their own chosen sports..

 

[dimsum]

And based on what kind of teams the troops want, you can engage with local civvy teams as part of a fun type of COMREL program. We frequently played rugby and soccer teams from a variety of local communities in various countries and it was good fun for everyone, especially when the 'British Army' lost!

Exactly.  I would hazard a guess that a fair chunk of CF members already participate in local sports leagues and pay for team shirts, etc. so it wouldn't be much of a stretch for those playing the same sport in the league to make a CF team.  It wouldn't have to be anything formal, but it would increase PR presence in something that the members are doing anyway.

I never looked into it in Canada, but the ADF will pay for entry fees, etc. in a variety of events (such as marathons, triathlons and the like) if the member wears an ADF shirt/singlet.  Again, good PR and really not a whole lot of $ for the Crown.

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

I disagree that we have lost our sports/fitness culture.  I think our focus and emphasis has changed from the years prior when it comes to sports and athletics. I will agree partly with you in that I think we have a terrible instituitional attitude towards physical fitness writ large.  As for sports there are still robust local sports leauges for all manner of sports plus a number of regional, national and CISM sports competitions, including various Brigade and element ones (Ironman, Mtn man, RCAF run, Army Run).  They IMHO are more than enough to sate anyone's appetite when it comes to sports.

We are a small force with limited funds.  I would rather see the bulk of sports funding downloaded onto the center of mass rather than focusing on individuals/teams who are elite in their field.  We don't need people whose job is to do a sport.  There are better avenues for those folks to go down if they want to be full time athletes.  If anything creating a workforce where PT isn't the first thing sloughed off when things get a bit busy would be a step in the right direction.

Wrt MMA/Grappling and the like, I do agree there should be a move for more inclusion and acceptance, but it also boils downs to what do the troops want to do.  Hockey, soccer, softball, golf, volleyball, basketball and various other intramural type sports dominant their wants.  Very few want MMA, boxing, biathalon etc etc

Pretty much the only sports I ever hear about are softball, hockey ice and ball, soccer and volleyball, you also cannot forget the point you made for me...runs, there's all kinds of military runs, and that's about it. As far as satiating everyone's appetite for sports I'm telling you that it in fact only caters to a portion of people.  I only know 1 person who wants to run as a sport, I know maybe 2-5 people who want to play hockey or rugby...majority of the people I know could care less about these sports.

As far as CISM goes, we don't compete in half the sports! So that's not exactly a shining beacon.

Like I said I think some people need to broaden their horizons and learn about other things then running and hockey for example. Excluding sports because you aren't knowledgeable about those sports and giving BS reasons shouldn't be happening.

Not only for the opportunities should we harken back to the old days of sports, but for that added competitiveness and pride in having beaten everyone else on your base or everyone in your division. Think about it how many sports aternoons or functions or crappy boring (no long term plan) PT have any of us done that we couldn't have used that time instead to practice whatever chosen sport we did (provided we were competitive)?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Not only for the opportunities should we harken back to the old days of sports, but for that added competitiveness and pride in having beaten everyone else on your base or everyone in your division. Think about it how many sports aternoons or functions or crappy boring (no long term plan) PT have any of us done that we couldn't have used that time instead to practice whatever chosen sport we did (provided we were competitive)?

Cricket. I even had to play cricket. I had no idea what was going on except:

a) I had a nice nap in the outfield after they fed me lunch
b) We won (I couldn't tell)
c) We all got hammered on G&Ts afterwards

 

[MJP]

As far as CISM goes, we don't compete in half the sports! So that's not exactly a shining beacon.

\

Good,  excuse my language but I fricking hate CISM and think it is almost a complete waste of funds.  I see little benefit for the CAF writ large from sponsoring sports that only benefit a limited number of CAF members.  Our limited funds are better spent at the base level with some National comps thrown in(but certainly not every year like the current status quo).

Pretty much the only sports I ever hear about are softball, hockey ice and ball, soccer and volleyball, you also cannot forget the point you made for me...runs, there's all kinds of military runs, and that's about it. As far as satiating everyone's appetite for sports I'm telling you that it in fact only caters to a portion of people.  I only know 1 person who wants to run as a sport, I know maybe 2-5 people who want to play hockey or rugby...majority of the people I know could care less about these sports.

What do you want to see?  The troops will only play and be interested in what they want to do.  You sound like the folks that want the mess to serve healthier food all the time but forget that that isn't what the troops want. 

That said, you can create all sorts of teams if you get the interest and put in the effort.  No one is stopping you from trying.  In recent years I have seen a football team, grappling, MMA"esque" and some limited rugby action started as grassroots (in some cases Comd driven) activities.

I have also had the opposite experience in my career than you in that there seems to be enough variety of sports for most people.  The fact that most bases are near major population centers also means that folks that play sports that don't have critical mass can go downtown and play.  Certainly doesn't help create "cohesion" within the military community but I would argue that the benefit is largely overstated anyway (unless of course it is rugby).

Not only for the opportunities should we harken back to the old days of sports, but for that added competitiveness and pride in having beaten everyone else on your base or everyone in your division. Think about it how many sports aternoons or functions or crappy boring (no long term plan) PT have any of us done that we couldn't have used that time instead to practice whatever chosen sport we did (provided we were competitive)?

Again I ask what sports should we harken back too?  The ones the troops don't want to participate in?  The ones with limited numbers of folks that want to do it that further spread our small allotment of money?  Like I said, start a team and get it going.  Bemoaning the that the lack of traction is due to ignorance smacks of excuse making.  Make them educated by having a well drawn up and executed plan of attack.  Not the easiest to do I will admit but if you want something different, no one else is going to do it for you.

As for the competitiveness out in the army of the west we have a winter sports competition and this summer an inaugural summer sport competition plus mountain man.  3 events driven by the Bde that foster some great competition between all the units.  Not to mention all the normal base leagues and base teams for the various regional and national comps.  IMHO I think we are pretty well covered in the sports dept. 

 

[Danjanou]

I have to ask if that's sarcasm or if those "courses" have actually happened to you?

having known the poster for 4 decades now I'd say both.  8)

 

[Nemo888]

Cricket. I even had to play cricket. I had no idea what was going on except:

a) I had a nice nap in the outfield after they fed me lunch
b) We won (I couldn't tell)
c) We all got hammered on G&Ts afterwards

Is it wrong that I miss the getting hammered even more than the athletics?  I say bring back both.

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

\

I have also had the opposite experience in my career than you in that there seems to be enough variety of sports for most people.  The fact that most bases are near major population centers also means that folks that play sports that don't have critical mass can go downtown and play.  Certainly doesn't help create "cohesion" within the military community but I would argue that the benefit is largely overstated anyway (unless of course it is rugby).

Are we in the same military? Most bases are near major population centers i.e cities?  (if that's not what you meant I apologise, that's how I understood it) I would say probably half of the installations are in the sticks,
To show what I mean: Gagetown, Aldershot, Petawawa, Meaford, Shilo, Suffield, Wainwright, Bagotville, Comox, Cold Lake, Gander, Goose Bay, Greenwood, Trenton are all small towns and/or are in the middle of nowhere, where you have to drive a while to get to anything worthwhile.

Again I ask what sports should we harken back too?  The ones the troops don't want to participate in?  The ones with limited numbers of folks that want to do it that further spread our small allotment of money?  Like I said, start a team and get it going.  Bemoaning the that the lack of traction is due to ignorance smacks of excuse making.  Make them educated by having a well drawn up and executed plan of attack.  Not the easiest to do I will admit but if you want something different, no one else is going to do it for you.

As for the competitiveness out in the army of the west we have a winter sports competition and this summer an inaugural summer sport competition plus mountain man.  3 events driven by the Bde that foster some great competition between all the units.  Not to mention all the normal base leagues and base teams for the various regional and national comps.  IMHO I think we are pretty well covered in the sports dept.

See just having winter and summer competitions would be a start provided it wasn't just hockey, volleyball, soccer, rugby.  Never heard of such competitions in Ontario. As far as base teams go, for Pet there seems to be only Soccer and Hockey and maybe women's softball, intramural ive seen soccer, baseball, soccer, ball hockey, obviously running teams ad nauseum. I actually am in the process of getting a club started, i'm not a whiner, i'm actually being proactive, filling paperwork, writing up bylaws, etc...BUT my club won't be through the military it will be through PSP, which means buddy in my Coy who's on the base hockey team would get to miss work (for practice and games/tournaments) without taking vacation or extra BS AND have his travel paid because its through the CF, but if I wanted to go to somekind of championship in anything other then those sports, my $, my vacation time, etc.

I guess i'm not just saying that more sports should be played but more sports should be recognised by the CF, I mean GOLF and CURLING are for crying out loud...no one can ever convince me of the fitness benefits of golf for soldiers.

 

[Journeyman]

......i'm not a whiner......

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

Journeyman

I love that you had something constructive and relevant to say.

 

[Journeyman]

I was just highlighting you comment for those who may have missed it, buried amongst the whining as it was.  You're welcome.


And if I were to address this self-absorbed diatribe, I would weigh in on the side of the others who see plenty of sports culture still available.  Not as much as back in the mythical 'good old days,'  but as you have alluded to at the beginning, you're only looking for an "athletic culture" that directly supports your desire to go SAR Tech, JTF2, CSOR......

However, I choose not to get involved in pandering to your me me me.

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

Actually I have no plans to go sar/csor/jtf2...I mentioned those units in a point I made never alluding at any time that, that is where I plan on going, which in case you missed it again since you missed A LOT in the entire thread: I am not planning to tryout for any of these units, I do have career goals in mind, none of which involve CANSOF.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I also think combative sports such as BJJ, Boxing, MMA, kickboxing should definitely be ENCOURAGED in the military, fostering that warrior ethos, and tradition.

That might fly in the face of harassment course you are required to take, along with taking time away from important things like, courses on how to design your e-mail Sig block to meet new TBS standards.

Or IM training, or CTAT, or Ethics or......  :crybaby: