BCAS Job Action delays Med Tech QL3 quals

[EDS334]

Ah... I'm glad that there's someone else who has an opinion on the strike by the Service. JIBC's ability to negotiate will have to be seen, and you have to realize that the protocols of BC is not the same as other provinces. Not to mention that the other provinces all have their OWN service to worry about, so why should one service ditch their own recruits/student PCPs and take on a bunch of CF ones?

You have to realize that CF PCP students is only a DROP of water in a VERY big pond. Please don't think that their thoughts of out of province precepting has anything remotely to do with you. It has everything to do with the civi PCP students which out number you 5:1.

Why would JAG Officers look into a breach of contract? BCAS does NOT work for JIBC Paramedic Academy. When they became separate entities way back in the day (when the service stopped training their own), the only thing left in agreement was that all paramedics will be precepted in BC, because they will work in BC, and they will adhere to BC protocols. So another words JIBC being a civilian body (yes JIBC is actually a business) has no control over what the Ambulance does or does not do.

I would not expect JAG to look at BCAS with a microscope, but rather JIBC.  BCAS facilitates JIBC's requests for preceptors, however JIBC is on the hook for a contract with DND afaik.

As a contracted institution, JIBC has made commitments (somewhere on paper I presume) that were made prior to this latest disruption in BCAS employee's accepting JIBC students for precepting.  While the crux of the situation rests in BC with the members of CUPE Local 873, BCAS, and the Provincial government (to settle issues), the Justice Institute of BC is no longer able to meet their scheduled training plan for their students (military and civilian alike). 

Once we've completed all we can out here in BC, we're heading back to Borden to complete our QL3 field phase ASAP, and then get posted to our units.  This is a huge plus for everyone, for the time being as we get to move on with our lives and careers.  I can only start to imagine the administrative burden this will cause, since those of us that are posted will do so with a footnote beside our name...  Pte. Bloggins Med Tech1

And yes, just like you mentioned about DND vs Civ. students, JIBC has reminded us Military folk almost every day that "Fee for Service" students definitely capture the schools attention... "on a different level".  What I find interesting is that while DND students are looked at as free loaders compared to civvies, DND still floats the bill.  But... uggg...I digress.

It is my personal and professional opinion that you would be an idiot to not take the job you want if and when you are offered it. This little "hick up" is only a year or so of pain, for which you are being paid, clothed, housed and fed during.

There is a saying: "Its all pensionable time".

And that pensionable time is quite good.  ;D

1.  Special Case.

 

[medaid]

I would not expect JAG to look at BCAS with a microscope, but rather JIBC.  BCAS facilitates JIBC's requests for preceptors, however JIBC is on the hook for a contract with DND afaik.

...... BCAS does not facilitate their "request". BCAS IS THE ONLY PRECEPTING ENTITY IN BC. This comes from the fact that they are the ONLY AMBULANCE SERVICE, and to restate what I said before "BC PROTOCOLS ARE DIFFERENT FROM OTHER PROVINCES" so even if the PCP students were precepted somewhere else it would not be recognized, and when you get to licensing you'll be all fracked up.

As a contracted institution, JIBC has made commitments (somewhere on paper I presume) that were made prior to this latest disruption in BCAS employee's accepting JIBC students for precepting.  While the crux of the situation rests in BC with the members of CUPE Local 873, BCAS, and the Provincial government (to settle issues), the Justice Institute of BC is no longer able to meet their scheduled training plan for their students (military and civilian alike). 

Again... this is the JI's fault... how? Despite the NOCPs every province still controls their own health care, which includes paramedicine, and as such every province has DIFFERENT PROTOCOLS! Unless some other service uses the SAME protocols as BCAS (which I doubt) down to the T, then the preception is useless! JIBC can't make others do things their way, and as such it doesn't work to precept with anyone else. BCAS is the only place... so... unless the JI can some how convince the province to smarten the frack up (which I doubt) you are all in a pickle. But hey... look at it this way, at least you still have a job.

And yes, just like you mentioned about DND vs Civ. students, JIBC has reminded us Military folk almost every day that "Fee for Service" students definitely capture the schools attention... "on a different level".  What I find interesting is that while DND students are looked at as free loaders compared to civvies, DND still floats the bill.  But... uggg...I digress.

This maybe because the "Fee for Service" students don't get PAID to go to the JI. Maybe because the "Fee for Service" students didn't get their seats paid for by the CF. Maybe because when these "Fee for Service" students fail this course, they don't have a job to go back to, and they don't get to try it again, since $6000 is allot of money for those who don't have the CF to foot the bill? Even if you're not licensed it's not that big of a deal is it? It is to all those who wanted to be a Paramedic. You've got a job... they're starving, and will continue to starve on the current contract even if the job action is over.

I'm sorry to say but I've seen some pretty atrocious MedTechs in the PCP program (clarify not the old timers getting their PCP, but the brand new off the street applicants). Sometimes I think that maybe this "oh if I fail I'll still have a job" mentality is getting to the instructors... not to mention the rest of the JIBC students.

 

[EDS334]

...... BCAS does not facilitate their "request". BCAS IS THE ONLY PRECEPTING ENTITY IN BC. This comes from the fact that they are the ONLY AMBULANCE SERVICE, and to restate what I said before "BC PROTOCOLS ARE DIFFERENT FROM OTHER PROVINCES" so even if the PCP students were precepted somewhere else it would not be recognized, and when you get to licensing you'll be all fracked up.

Again... this is the JI's fault... how? Despite the NOCPs every province still controls their own health care, which includes paramedicine, and as such every province has DIFFERENT PROTOCOLS! Unless some other service uses the SAME protocols as BCAS (which I doubt) down to the T, then the preception is useless! JIBC can't make others do things their way, and as such it doesn't work to precept with anyone else. BCAS is the only place... so... unless the JI can some how convince the province to smarten the frack up (which I doubt) you are all in a pickle. But hey... look at it this way, at least you still have a job.

This maybe because the "Fee for Service" students don't get PAID to go to the JI. Maybe because the "Fee for Service" students didn't get their seats paid for by the CF. Maybe because when these "Fee for Service" students fail this course, they don't have a job to go back to, and they don't get to try it again, since $6000 is allot of money for those who don't have the CF to foot the bill? Even if you're not licensed it's not that big of a deal is it? It is to all those who wanted to be a Paramedic. You've got a job... they're starving, and will continue to starve on the current contract even if the job action is over.

I'm sorry to say but I've seen some pretty atrocious MedTechs in the PCP program (clarify not the old timers getting their PCP, but the brand new off the street applicants). Sometimes I think that maybe this "oh if I fail I'll still have a job" mentality is getting to the instructors... not to mention the rest of the JIBC students.

First off, what's with the SHOUTING?  >

Yes, BCAS is the only Ambulance service in the Province, and as such is the source to obtain preceptorship.  And while I would love to think that given the option the Paramedics of BC would precept irregardless of their own job disputes, I do not confuse the fact that BCAS and their Employee's made no promises (afaik) to DND.  Since they are an essential service, and the only supplier of that service - like us - they too are "in a pickle".  I digress though.

To the point of Protocols, "Licensing" and the like, JIBC has informed my course, that should they find us out of province ambulance shifts, they (JIBC) will ensure we are able to meet the host Provinces Protocols.  Given that most Provincial standards are above that of the NOCP's like you mentioned, we are left to use the AIT (Agreement of Internal Trade) Tool to have a rough guess on what we might need to study up on.  And I'm sure that a finer comb through will be done by JIBC to ensure that the PCP-Student licenses are also reviewed so much as to ensure that the simple status of being a student would still allow us ample opportunities.  Otherwise what's the point eh? 

I personally don't consider the "BC license" to be critical, given the facts that I probably won't be posted to a unit residing in BC, and (I hope) it'll be a few years before I seriously need to consider my career options.  Even if I were to return to BC immediately I believe that eventually I'll be granted the chance to achieve it.  What does irk me though, like I've already mentioned somewhere on this forum, is that as of this moment JIBC will not recognize our having completed their program.  As a Federally accredited Institution, the program outline has 33 university level credits which can be applied (or submitted for acceptance) to any other Educational institute.  And I would love to continue my education onwards up the food chain.  More to point, having completed the JIBC PCP Program, I would be able to challenge the Provincial licensing exams (most likely after hours of review and study of local practice) so that I could obtain a useful license; thereby allowing me more opportunities (if approved by my CoC) to upkeep essential skills - such as basic airway management.  Granted, we can practice on dolls.  Hell, we can practice on live dummies too (if risks are deemed appropriate).  But there ain't nothing like the real deal.  And being Provincially registered to perform the delegated medical acts required to upkeep those skills is not only in keeping with the MCSP, but common dog, no?

 

[aesop081]

I would not expect JAG to look at BCAS with a microscope, but rather JIBC. 1.  Special Case.

I would say it would be more likely that the lawyers would be civillians and not JAG.

PWGSC is not part of the military. They are the ones doing the contracting.

 

[EDS334]

I would say it would be more likely that the lawyers would be civillians and not JAG.

PWGSC is not part of the military. They are the ones doing the contracting.

Public Works?  Google-Fu to the rescue.  Cool beans Aviator, thanks.

The whole aspect of JAG/Lawyers/Contracts is just more a note of curiosity on my point, but it's good to know where to start looking should I determine to make the CF my life long career.

 

[mariomike]

Oh ho ho... you don't know the half of it... and the impact that's already having right now.

I just know what I read in the papers. I received this today. FYI, if interested:
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Canadian-Union-Of-Public-Employees-Cupe-Bc-1063368.html

 

[hlss_h513]

just out of the blue here but couldent find a forum for it but what highschool credits are required to become a medic on the CF and what grade level should they be in. 11, 12? both? college/university?

 

[mariomike]

just out of the blue here but couldent find a forum for it but what highschool credits are required to become a medic on the CF and what grade level should they be in. 11, 12? both? college/university?

You may find this link of interest. See "Qualification Requirements":
http://www.forces.ca/html/medicaltechnician_reg_en.aspx

 

[medaid]

First off, what's with the SHOUTING?  >

Those were emphasis not shouting.

 

[old medic]

This is an older article from Oct 18th 2009. Not directly related to the job action at BCAS,
but related. Looks like they are cutting their Instructor trainer programs to fire departments
that first respond.

Training cuts anger fire chiefs
B.C. commission ends contract, jeopardizing first-aid programs
By Rob Shaw, Times ColonistOctober 18, 2009
http://www.timescolonist.com/health/Training+cuts+anger+fire+chiefs/2117004/story.html

B.C.'s fire chiefs say they're angry and confused by cuts to a provincial program that trains firefighters to provide medical aid before an ambulance arrives at the scene of an emergency.

The chiefs say they were blindsided last week when the province's Emergency Health Services Commission abruptly announced it will end a contract to pay for advanced first aid training for firefighters at the B.C. Justice Institute.

The move is effective March 31, 2010, but the Justice Institute has already started cancelling programs that certified senior firefighters, who then returned to train their own departments.

That's left fire departments asking tough questions about who will pay for future training, and whether it's worth cutting actual firefighting services in order to pay for what's supposed to be a voluntary program to help the B.C. Ambulance Service.

"Right now, the reality is the answer would probably be no, and I have to look at the program and look at the affect of us getting out of it," said Victoria fire chief Doug Angrove.

"If they are relying on the goodwill of some of the departments, well that could be a problem because goodwill only goes so far."

Under the first-responder program, fire halls dispatch firefighters to certain medical emergency calls -- such as unconscious collapses, shortness of breath and severe chest pain -- because they can often get to the scene more quickly than an ambulance and begin lifesaving first-aid procedures.

Traditionally, the B.C. Emergency Health Services Commission has helped to pay to train the firefighters at the Justice Institute in exchange for departments voluntarily helping the paramedics.

Cutting the training saved the Emergency Health Services Commission $250,000 a year and was part of a "very difficult decision" to find budget savings ordered by the provincial government, said Jim Christensen, vice-president for emergency and health services.

"We came to this year with the budget crunch and there was clear government direction that we will not be allowed to go over our budget, and with increased demand from all sorts of areas we were seriously at risk of doing that," he said.

The commission doesn't want to lose the first-responder program and is trying to find an alternative way to train firefighters, said Christensen.

But he admits it may cost fire departments more money for future training and he realizes, to them, it looks like downloaded costs.

Paramedics, who are locked in a lengthy labour dispute with the commission, say they support the firefighters.

"I agree with the fire chiefs, why would they continue?" asked BJ Chute, spokesman for the Ambulance Paramedics of B.C. union.

"If we had the appropriate number of ambulances and the appropriate number of paramedics, we wouldn't have to rely on the fire departments."

The lack of clear answers is frustrating, said Angrove, chairman of the Greater Victoria Fire Chiefs. The Victoria Fire Department has already submitted its budget to city council and there's little wiggle room to find extra money to train 23 firefighters whose certification as level three advanced first responders expires next year.

"If you pass on these costs to volunteer fire departments, or any fire departments, and they can't afford to stay in the business, and the B.C. Ambulance Service isn't well-resourced in those communities, then I think ultimately the patient is going to suffer," said Angrove.

The cuts come as numerous municipal councils renew liability agreements for the first-responder program. Firefighters call it providing "pre-hospital care."

"I think you'll find some communities will be asking that question, should we be involved in pre-hospital care?" said Stephen

Gamble, president of the Fire Chiefs' Association of B.C.

"Pre-hospital care right now really needs the fire service to assist. At this point, the capacity isn't there to just be run by B.C. Ambulance.

"So whether people come to the table willingly or not, they need to come to the table and talk about it. I'm confident they will. Cooler heads will prevail."

rfshaw@tc.canwest.com

 

[mariomike]

Training cuts anger fire chiefs
B.C. commission ends contract, jeopardizing first-aid programs

Quote from the story posted by Old Medic:
"If we had the appropriate number of ambulances and the appropriate number of paramedics, we wouldn't have to rely on the fire departments."
That's unlikely to happen until the four to one ratio of Firefighters versus to Paramedics is evened out a little bit.
"When seconds count, we're 15 minutes away." 

 

[old medic]

Olympics reason for back-to-work legislation: union
Tue Nov. 03 2009
The Canadian Press
copy at: http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20091103/bc_strike_end_reason_091103/20091103/?hub=BritishColumbiaHome

The union representing B.C. ambulance paramedics says it has information showing the Olympics are the real reason the provincial government has introduced legislation to end a seven-month strike by the workers.

CUPE points to a memo from Vancouver Games medical director Dr. Mike Wilkinson to Ambulance Service CEO Lee Doney and other government officials.

The union says the memo asks for a guarantee from the government that all ambulance services will be available during the Games and says the guarantee could come through either a settlement of the strike or a legislated solution.

CUPE B.C. president Barry O'Neill says it's obvious the memo is at the heart of the reason for the legislation, which would impose a three per cent wage increase in a one-year contract.

When Health Minister Kevin Falcon introduced the legislation on Monday, he didn't mention the Olympics, but said the strike had dragged on too long and was putting people's health at risk with the approach of winter and in the face of the H1N1 virus.

O'Neill says blaming the H1N1 pandemic when paramedics have been calling on the government to address the issue for more than a year is despicable, and he accuses the government of having a "shameful disregard" for the workers.

 

[mariomike]

Olympics reason for back-to-work legislation: union
Tue Nov. 03 2009
The Canadian Press

Found this in my in-box today. FYI, if interested:
"November 3, 2009
Dear concerned citizen,
Yesterday (November 2nd), the BC Liberal government introduced legislation that forces B.C.’s 3,500 ambulance paramedics “back to work” in the middle of collective bargaining. The Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act (BILL 21), introduced by Health Services Minister Kevin Falcon, is unprecedented in Canadian labour history. This is the first time a government has forced public employees to accept a collective agreement while the union is in the middle of voting on an offer from that same government.
Falcon has used the H1N1 virus to justify this outrageous assault on collective bargaining, and he continually denies that the Olympics are driving the government’s strategy. But we now know that in September the BC Ambulance Service received a memo from VANOC demanding a guarantee of ambulance services, “through either settlement or legislated ‘détente’ for the Games.”
This only compounds the outrage of Bill 21. The government is lying about its reasons for imposing a settlement.  If the Liberals had negotiated a fair collective agreement for B.C.’s hardworking ambulance paramedics, this issue would never have been raised.
This legislation is currently being debated in BC’s Provincial Legislature and could pass as early as Thursday.  It is thus critical that your MLA hear from you immediately, prior to voting on it.  We are asking you to e-mail your MLA with a copy to Premier Campbell and Minister Falcon.
For those of you in Liberal constituencies, please put pressure on your MLA with  the message that this legislation is regressive and shameful and that, as their constituent, you demand that they oppose Bill 21 and further demand that they urge the government to allow the collective bargaining process to continue.
If you live in an NDP constituency, please thank your MLA for their opposition to Bill 21 thus far and ask them to use all means at their disposal to defeat this legislation.
For those who live in the Victoria area, we encourage you to visit the legislature tomorrow (Wednesday) from 1:30 pm until 7 pm to witness debate on the bill.
Thank you for your support.
Ambulance Paramedics Of BC
www.saveourparamedics.com
www.apbc.ca

"MLAs battle over paramedic strike:
VICTORIA – Debate heated up Tuesday on the B.C. Liberal government's surprise move to impose a contract on ambulance paramedics and dispatchers on the eve of a membership vote on their latest contract offer.":
http://www.bclocalnews.com/bc_cariboo/quesnelobserver/news/68957802.html

Province of British Columbia: Commission To Review Ambulance Service Bargaining
VICTORIA, Nov 04, 2009 (M2 PRESSWIRE via COMTEX) -- Labour Minister Murray Coell today announced that he will appoint an Industrial Inquiry Commission to put forward options for a new bargaining structure for ambulance paramedics and dispatchers in the province.":
http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2009/11/04/4463513.htm

"BC’s Health Services Minister has admitted his decision to propel striking medics back to work was motivated by needing to secure EMS coverage during the upcoming Olympic Games. That is the word from the Vancouver Sun (November 4) which quoted Kevin Falcon as admitting the fact shortly after the prehospital union revealed covert discussions between Olympic organizers and BC Ambulance. According to labour reps, Games bureaucrats sent a September memo to EMS brass strong-arming for a strike settlement or legislated resolution.  Along with citing the Olympics as a factor, Falcon also said the H1N1 flu was also a motivator in his decision. Under the proposed legislation mandating the strike’s end, medics would receive a one year contract involving a 3 per cent wage hike retroactive to April 1."

 

[lavoie020]

Anyone as any info on what this means for all the unqualified QL3 sitting in the units... Cause I know 17 pte that are anxious to know what's going with that.

 

[aesop081]

Cause I know 17 pte that are anxious to know what's going with that.

You also know 17 Privates who have a chain of command that is there to answer those questions.

 

[Cansky]

Anyone as any info on what this means for all the unqualified QL3 sitting in the units... Cause I know 17 pte that are anxious to know what's going with that.

I realize your anxious to finalize your training but this legistlation was passed just this past friday.  The school now has see BCAS is going to start training again.  If you read the reports out of BC you'll find that BCAS has little intention of rushing back to work.  So for now patience and let us at the school figure things out.

 

[mariomike]

FYI, if interested:
http://www.cfax1070.com/newsstory.php?newsId=11267

 

[mariomike]

In today's paper.
"B.C. Ambulance warns of delays due to staff shortages":
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/bc-ambulance-warns-of-delays-due-to-staff-shortages/article1363389/

 

[EDS334]

Update on Paramedic Job Action – November 10, 2009

On Saturday, November 7th, 2009, Bill 21 was passed into law, which legislated the BC Paramedics back to work.

Over the coming weeks we will be working closely with all stakeholders to resume paramedic practicum, and to select tentative dates for resuming paramedic courses in 2010.

We will continue to provide you with updates via this website as new information becomes available.

The cog slowly turns. 

 

[medaid]

Don't be too happy.
Back to work doesn't mean they have to do jack all that's out of their primary function.

Guess where precepting is under? Give you one guess.