Battles leave Afghans nowhere to turn

[kilekaldar]

Today's Globe & Mail.
What do you guys think?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060809.wafghanistan09/BNStory/National/


Battles leave Afghans nowhere to turn

TIM ALBONE AND TAHIR LUDDIN

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

Rozi Mohammad had been digging for hours and he was nowhere near finished.

“I am digging because I will not leave this village like I left my home village,” the 24-year-old said, his three children by his side. “When the bombs come again we will hide in here.”

Like hundreds of families who live in Pashmul district, Mr. Mohammad had left his home among the fertile grape fields 40 kilometres west of Kandahar city that have been the scene of some of the fiercest fighting between Canadian troops and Taliban rebels. He thought he was safer here in Sartakht village. Though still in Pashmul, it's closer to the main highway and closer to Kandahar city. He was, however, not taking any chances, and so he began digging.

The villagers in this rural area are put in an impossible position. “The Taliban are forcing us to give them food and shelter and the coalition are bombing us,” said Sultan Mohammad, a man of 50 with five children who also fled. “We hate the Canadians and we hate the Taliban.”

The families, mostly farmers, are leaving behind their harvests and their livelihoods. The grapes have grown and now is the time they would dry and sell them. “I have no water and no food now, my grapes are back on my farm and ready to be dried, but it is not safe for me to go back,” said Mohammad Talib, 35, a father of 10. “I have nowhere to turn. Should I cry to the government, the Canadians or the Taliban? It is useless, no one is listening.”

For those who have fled, the conditions in Sartakht are basic. The nearest well for water is more than a kilometre away and near a Taliban position. The shelters are makeshift and there is no electricity. Yet Mr. Mohammad is not alone.

“More than 800 families from Pashmul and Zhari districts have fled,” said engineer Abdul Quadar Norzai, the regional program manager of the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission. And with families often being 10 or more people, the areas worst hit by the fighting are now nearly devoid of civilian life. “It is creating a huge problem for the families leaving,” Mr. Norzai said. “They are leaving everything ... and it will create negative thoughts.”

Canadians and NATO commanders are aware of the situation, but Afghan agencies have asked that they be allowed to deal with the internally displaced people who don't have a kind view of the Canadian troops.

Lieutenant-General David Richards, head of NATO forces in Afghanistan, has twice called off missions for fear of civilian casualties. “I have made it clear in my orders to troops to be very, very careful,” he said during a briefing in Kandahar.

Abdul Samat, 35, had his household possessions on the back of a tractor. Four of his five children and his wife had already fled the village of Ghulam Haidar for Kandahar city. He was on his way to join them. “I have no choice, I don't care about my land or my house, only for my children, and for them I need to leave,” he said, his child wailing as he spoke. “First the Taliban force their way into our houses and then the coalition bomb us,” he said.

If the NATO mission is to be successful, it has to provide for people like these. “The first time we had the Karzai administration, we had great expectations, but we were not expecting to have to flee our homes,” said Mohammad Talib, another villager.

“I don't know what side to support. I hate the Taliban. I hate the government. I hate the Canadians. They have not done anything for me except kill our children with their bombs.”

Special to The Globe and Mail

 

[Lost_Warrior]

It's sad that people are put into situations like that.  Unfortunately the storm has to endure before the calm.  If PRT workers were sent into Taliban hotspots to build schools and wells without first sending in the soldiers to clear the area, it would be a blood bath.

 

[m410]

Media + locals = sensationalism.  That's at best case, when it isn't pure Taliban info ops.

Finding someone who says “I don't know what side to support. I hate the Taliban. I hate the government. I hate the Canadians. They have not done anything for me except kill our children with their bombs.” is great copy.

 

[Infanteer]

So, you think that it is improbable that some people may feel backed into a corner if two sides are fighting through their backyard?  ???

 

[paracowboy]

“I don't know what side to support. I hate the Taliban. I hate the government. I hate the Canadians. They have not done anything for me except kill our children with their bombs.”

pretty common statement from folks caught up in a war zone. Seems to run throughout history. John Q. Whomever doesn't truly care too much who runs the show, as long as his family is fed, clothed, and safe.

 

[JackD]

I wonder why anyone hasn't picked up yet on that '..with their bombs" quote.. I didn't know Canada had air assets in Afghanistan... isn't that the theme of several on-going threads on this website - that there are NO Canadian air assets in this theatre?

 

[kilekaldar]

We use Allied air assets, US, Brit, soon the Dutch will have Helis over there I think.

When they say "bombs" they might also mean Arty.


Kile

 

[rmacqueen]

Unfortunately, the civilians are often the victims of war as well and one can hardly blame them for feeling this way.  They are not out there analyzing whose bombs they are, they only know that they are being bombed.

But, we also need to take stories like this with a grain of salt.  As we have also seen from the Lebanon evacuation the media will often seek out the malcontents to protray a negative image.  We heard story after story about the sorry conditions and the anger but very few about the people who burst into tears upon seeing the Canadian flag or saying how wonderful Canada is for saving them.

Ultimately, the commanders on the ground have to walk a fine line between fighting the battle, trying to make life better for the civilians and not wasting resources trying to please everyone, cuz it ain't gonna happen.  Then, of course, they will have to deal with the politics as well.

 

[reccecrewman]

It should also be noted that how are these locals to know that the air strikes aren't Canadian?  They see Canadian troops on the ground and when there's $#@! hitting the fan, and air support shows up - it is very likely that they believe that the aircraft are Canadian.  I wouldn't differentiate between troops on the ground fighting and air assets that show up to assist them if it was my backyard this was occuring in.  It has been stated before that it's better to fight them in their backyard rather than our own, and I do agree.

Regards

 

[mainerjohnthomas]

While I have great sympathy for the plight of the Afghan civilians, it is tempered with the realization that they allowed this to happen.  Like the Lebanese, they allowed a terrorist organization, a foreign funded and organized religious extremist group, to set up shop and prepare to export death abroad.  When the inevitable retaliation arrived, the civilians are most definitely in the crossfire.  I know that many of the Afghans had no choice in the matter, and for them I am most deeply sorry, but a great many of them chose to do nothing, or gave tacit approval to the establishment of the Taliban in their nation, and now they bear the cost of our digging it out. In the end, our soldiers are killing and dying for the chance for these powerless Afghans to have a second chance to choose the fate of their nation.  Perhaps the memory of the terrible cost of the Taliban will inspire the next generation of Afghans to guard their freedom more carefully.  My own grandmother was forever scarred by growing up in occupied Holland, and knows well the terrible cost of liberation, but the generations that followed deemed the price worth paying.

 

[pbi]

While I have great sympathy for the plight of the Afghan civilians, it is tempered with the realization that they allowed this to happen.  Like the Lebanese, they allowed a terrorist organization, a foreign funded and organized religious extremist group, to set up shop and prepare to export death abroad.  When the inevitable retaliation arrived, the civilians are most definitely in the crossfire.  I know that many of the Afghans had no choice in the matter, and for them I am most deeply sorry, but a great many of them chose to do nothing, or gave tacit approval to the establishment of the Taliban in their nation, and now they bear the cost of our digging it out.

IMHO this is the way most occupied or terrorized populations have always reacted throughout history: they just try to survive. Resistance (WWII Allied propaganda to the contrary) has, I think, only ever been the choice of a very tiny minority with high political motivation. To say that the Afghan people "allowed" the Taliban to gain power, or that they "allow" them to operate in their communities now is like blaming the average citizens of occupied countries in Europe for "allowing"  their countries to be invaded, or "allowing" domestic puppet regimes under the Axis (Croatia, Vichy France, Quisling Norway, etc). I don't think there is much evidence to show that the average person in any country will take the kind of risk required to stand up to brutal murdering thugs who cut people's heads off and blow up schools. (Which, IMHO, is why terror is seen as so effective and such a weapon of choice...)

Most people just want to be able to feed their kids and see them grow up in one piece, regardless of how bad and oppressive the regime in power is. For example, what was the daily effort of most Russians under the old USSR? To scheme about regime change? Or to get to the food queue in time to get something for dinner? The latter, I think.  If this wasn't true, nasty regimes wouldn't last five minutes: the "average people" would rise up and overthrow them. But, for the most part, the "average people" don't. But I don't think this offers any grounds to blame them for a fairly natural reaction.

A danger  that I see with the line of reasoning quoted above is that it is only a very short leap of logic away from actually blaming the Afghan people themselves for the existence of the Taliban, and beginning to see them as supporters of the enemy, or even as part of the enemy. And that, as we know all too well, is itself perilously close to even worse thinking and actions.

I think that until the average person can see very clearly that the tide has turned, and that opposition to evil forces will no longer result in harm to himself and his family, he will adopt a"wait and see" or survival mode. IMHO this is why these COIN ops are so very difficult and can so easily go wrong: we have to create this feeling of trust and confidence before we can win, but we can't create it without the willing cooperation of the people and the acceptance of some risk on their parts.

Cheers

 

[paracowboy]

IMHO this is the way most occupied or terrorized populations have always reacted throughout history: they just try to survive...IMHO this is why these COIN ops are so very difficult and can so easily go wrong: we have to create this feeling of trust and confidence before we can win, but we can't create it without the willing cooperation of the people and the acceptance of some risk on their parts.

what he said!

It's simple human nature. Think back to Grade School. The entire schoolyard would be held hostage by 3 kids, who'd push smaller kids around, take their money, etc. They could have gotten their asses handed to them if enough smaller kids had tried, but they never did, did they?

 

[mainerjohnthomas]

There is no question that the Afghans are going to keep taking it on the chin until we put that house in order.  For the Afghans that are struggling to build the infrastructure of that country, who are trying to build a government founded on something other than cold steel, who are attempting to work with us to make their nation one that can keep its children safe, and give them hope for something better, I have the deepest respect and admiration.  For the others who simply want it to be over now, but are unwilling to lift a hand to help, and willing to keep silent about those among them who are trying to prolong the suffering, I must admit to having less sympathy.  I will be the first in line to cheer or mourn for the Afghans who are attempting to build a better tomorrow with the aid we are giving them.  For those who do not care how the conflict turns out, as long as they themselves remain unscathed, I spare as much care for them as they do for their own countrymen.

 

[Magravan]

They are seeing their people hurt and dying. The eventual good matters little when your entire family was killed...

I'm am sure that they may appreciate the good that will come of it, but not if everything that mattered to them is gone. Much like a tourniquet... It may have to be done, but it may be a little much to ask them to smile while you do.

 

[JackD]

Well said PBI, most people just want to survive. This of course is an issue with wars in general, regimes in general, and the concept of collective guilt. What do Canadians for the most part want? good water, good roads, safety, security, decent food and little taxes - what else - a future for the kiddies... The irony is people want the chance to be 'bored'

 

[tankie]

Guys, In my humble opinion, to tackle the problem we need to remember nothing is new these days, just circular, however the British army tried to quell the afghans twice; (http://whitewolf.newcastle.edu.au/words/authors/K/KiplingRudyard/verse/volumeXI/fuzzywuzzy.html)

And the Russians had a 15 year campaign there with 3 shock army’s sample of one of them at (http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/index.php/3rd_Shock_Army) and even then they had to retreat in shame and ignominy

Time to breeak out the peoples elbow, and deploy the bad boy of rock and roll...JDAM

 

[mainerjohnthomas]

Both sides of my family have soldiered for the Empire in Afghanistan before, so the price of peace in Afghanistan is not a surprise to this Canadian.  The problem with comparing the British Imperial and Soviet experience in Afghanistan with our own is that both empires sought to impose foreign rule on the (notably fractious) Afghans, and we are doing the opposite.  Our presence in Afghanistan is to aid in removing the Pakistani poison known as the Taliban, and its foreign funded and recruited cadre's that are organizing the destabilizing terrorists, as well as the drug cartels who have much to lose if law and order comes to the poppy fields.  The common Afghans are not against us as oppressors, as they were in the cases of the British and Soviets, for we only buy time for the Afghans to rule themselves, not to establish our own hegemony.

 

[GAP]

I often wonder, that while we are there, and we are constantly told why we are there, if anyone has told the Afghan population. The commentary coming out in various media hint at the normal Afghan sitting back waiting for the "west" to fix things. I don't know the extent of the communications being voiced to the Afghan people, but they are no different than the normal Canadian citizen, they WILL sit back and wait and complain that the government isn't doing enough, while they do nothing to improve the situation.

 

[Mindbender1234]

There elements in place to go out and inform the local population of the efforts made by the Canadians... the main problem lies in the fact that the current security situation does not allow these elements to get outside the camp as freely and as often as is needed.  There is also a general feeling that Info Ops takes the back seat while combat is going on like we're seeing there now.  And as was stated numerous times previously in this topic, good luck trying to explain to a guy that you had to blow down his house for the greater good of Afghanistan.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I love the snotty remarks about the Coalition failure to wipe out the poppy trade, meanwhile back in Vancouver Growops are a booming business that seems to defy efforts to shut them down despite a significant police presence.