Army Communication & Information Systems Specialists (Sig Op, Lineman and LCIS Amalgamation)

[Feelix]

I'd like to know if we have new informations about this amalgamation... When the first troop will start ???

 

[Jammer]

The details still being worked out at the Army level. The CLS has yet to formally sign off on it, however we at CFSCE are anticipating the first crse to begin some time in FY 2010.

 

[HeadLamp]

So does that mean all the 3's courses that got pushed back to December 4th are still only the 5(6?) month variants of the course? We had a few guys that had October 09-10 on their course loading sheets and we figured it meant the course got lengthened for this amalgamation. Unfortunately no real info is passed our way so we're just hearing rumours right now.

 

[Jammer]

Read my previous post again.
Are you reg or reserve?
No changes to Reg Sig Op Apprentice crses until summer 2010 at the earliest.
You have to have SQ and Dvr wheel before showing up for your crse here, that would explain the change in training time.

 

[Feelix]

my QL3 are supposed to start on november 2... (french course) if they don't change the date again and again lol...

Do i still expecting those date with the old system... or they will push the date and wait till the almagation will be ready ???

 

[HeadLamp]

Read my previous post again.
Are you reg or reserve?
No changes to Reg Sig Op Apprentice crses until summer 2010 at the earliest.
You have to have SQ and Dvr wheel before showing up for your crse here, that would explain the change in training time.

Good to know. I'm Reg force and am already SQ and Dvr wheel qualified. Our understanding is we're going to be going to Kingston for PAT and just wait around for a few months until the Dec. 4th course. 

It must have just been an error in the systems here when the other guys got the year long course printed on their list. Either way a lot of people were unhappy with the push back and "supposed" extension of the course, so this information that it hasn't been approved yet will be well received I'm sure.

 

[Feelix]

as long as i know about the Kingston PAT Plattoon... everyone from PRETC are supposed to take their way to Kingston on October 2... but like army still army... this have time to chance so many time before it will happen... but i'd like to hear from you guy who maybe have more up to date information about all this...

 

[Jammer]

You'll find out when you get here.

 

[Wright]

Parts of this make sense to me, at least the the LCIS-Sig Op bridge...

I've had problems (And some extremely good experiences, they're not all terrible) in the past with LCIS techs conducting 1st line repairs, one particular pair in Kingston comes to mind, who spent a full 10 hours "diganosing" my truck, before finally at a conclusion which matched exactly what I had told them was wrong and what to repair from the very beginning, a little bit of experience operating the equipment you're going to fix is going to be huge asset in the long run...

Other benefit, having the operators able to perform first line maintenance would be a huge boon as well. Doesn't take a great deal of skill or training to teach somone to conduct basic soldering repairs of connectors, to swap out cards, or replace a HUB.

The major DOWNSIDE I see to this? Skill fade. Train people too broadly, they'll forget whatever they don't use on a regular basis, and they'll loose it, but that's a forces wide problem anyway, training up to our necks, and not enough opportunity to get skilled.

Changing a hub, card etc is not first line. i am consistently seeing this in alot of threads on here. First line is finding out what specific piece of kit is not working, and swapping it for one that does. the tech or QM should have access to a replacment item for that setup.

repairing that particular kit is second line, the tech, or QM should have access to the spare radios and equipment needed, it is more likely that they will bring a full NAU or RAU into an ex/op before they bring a static bag sealed card or a crap load of cards that are sealed.
third line, component level,

currently now, majority of what i see( not saying this is CF wide at all) is with green kit(yes i rarely see it no longer in a tac rad shop) but, when i did see it, the operators knew what kit was causing the trouble, or they suspected. and brought that kit to us for a serv test. we would test it, 9/10 times they were right.
back on track,
as for this MES, we were told (around june) that anyone 5's qualified would not be affected (tech side), and yes there was no definitive answers on Spec, Although they did hint at they were trying to get it for all trades, however it was up to some other government agency to grant it, and that there would be possibly more training required to justify it to that agency.

 

[Open Circuit]

Just to clarify, levels of maint are outlined in the permissive repair schedules. You should read them. There is a difference between levels of maint and lines of maint. For example a first line unit  can conduct 1st and 2nd level maint on a specific type of equipment. Second and third line units typically conduct 2nd and 3rd levels of  maint.

Just thought you should know.....

 

[Mojo Magnum]

I normally try to stay upbeat and positive with my posts online, but I was subjected to the atrocity that was the Mes brief the other day. 
I can get past the Frenglish (even when they make up words by jamming two similar words together to make a new one, and then use said attempt at a new word as the headline for their slide as was witnessed at the career managers brief), and I can get past the strange recurring nightmare that has two perfectly literate and well spoken English pers standing back while the "barely able to speak English" pers attempts to carry the entire brief on their own. 
It was difficult however to ignore how many senior members in the audience were equally annoyed by the complete lack of usefull information.  Big points to the presenter for thinking on his feet and laying down a good rap about his intent, not that it resembles what is and what will be.  I'm pretty sure we all came away with no new info whatsoever, aside from the clearly stated response to the question, "Will we earn spec pay?",  that was a definite "I don't know, it's not my job to decide that." 

My little anglophone pitty party aside, I was moved by the endorsement of the CO that he had known the man for fifteen years and that he really DID know what he was doing.

But I digress...

 

[LCIS-Tech]

I am going to weigh in here, since there appears to be a lot of inaccurate and misleading info floating around on this and other threads.

First and foremost: This IS happening. on 1 Jan 2011 all Linemen, Sig Ops and LCIS Techs will become part of the ACISS Trade (ARMY Communications and Information Systems Specialist). There are no if, ands, or buts about it. So we had best put on a brave face, and learn to smile with a mouth full of it if we don;t like it. All C&E Trades (with the sole exception of the Linemen) are hurting, number-wise. This is a fact. Talking with a Chief from recruiting, he says that part of our problem is that (from my Trade perspective: LCIS) the job is boring. While I disagree to a certain extent, I admit that the job does not have the "macho, glorious, and tough-guy" image that a trade like Infantry has (which, by coincidence is about 600 pers over strength). The MES (Military Employment Structure) or as some have called it: The Son of MOSART, is an opportunity to directly deal with those manning shortfalls, and ensure that we all have a common framework and information background. It will allow us to all do our respective jobs BETTER.

As far as Spec Pay goes (since I know that this is something that is near and dear to the hearts of the LCIS Techs out there: While it is ultimately up to Treasury Board to determine who gets what, it is hoped that the ENTIRE Trade (including sub-occupations) will recieve Spec Pay. Furthermore, those of us who are WO and above will actually be called Army Communications Technology Managers. Rumor has it that they are going to approach Treasury Board and try to get THOSE pers Spec TWO.

I have some other information as well, but I would suggest that you all meet up with and ask your Senior NCOs for some more detailed information regarding this subject. The Army Foreman sent out a Powerpoint presentation to the Area Foremen just before the start of Christmas Leave, and there is a little bit of new information in there. Ask about it, and remember: It IS going to happen. This is a done deal. Lets all make the best of it, and hope that we avoid the problems that were created when they amalgamated the Radar, Tel, Rad, and TE Tech Trades back in 1996.

 

[tsokman]

Can you digress some more on the role of the technology manager...is it suppose to be synthetic...

Would the LCIS Tech be more reoriented to second line maintenance if the sig op takes over basic first op maintenance...is there alot of outsourcing to civie companies in the 3rd line and overhauling-static repair area in the LCIS tech's "world"...

thanks

 

[meni0n]

It would interesting to see how that plays out, as it seems they want to have a general Manager sub occupation that can be put into any of the three roles. But, if the person was more exposed to let`s say sigop side of the job and then goes to this general manager, I don`t see how he`ll be able to fill a SME spot at a organization that focuses more on 2nd line maintenance. Perhaps these Army Communications Technology Managers will have their own sub occupations as well?

 

[tsokman]

Apparently there's suppose to be "common phase" training in both QL3 and QL5 before the MOC's begin to branch off...but Im not sure how it would work at the manager level...unless they have some interface concept  connecting all the sub-occupations upward and downward continuously into the technology manager role...

 

[meni0n]

I know there are common phases but they also want people to specialize in one of the three sub occupations. So even though a person is going to have a decent knowledge of the three trades, he is still going to be a SME in the sub occupation he specialized.

 

[PuckChaser]

At the Sgt level, the sub-occupations are supposed to merge back together, and said Sgt can be employed to supervise in any of the 4 sub-occupations. The courses become common again at that point.

 

[meni0n]

Puck, that seems logical but will that person be able to fill in as a SME for all three sub occupations? What if he specialized in Line but has to fill in a Chief Comm Op position. Will he have enough knowledge to do the job well.

 

[PuckChaser]

That's a training issue at the QL6a and QL7 level. As a Sgt Supervisor, you need to know less about the minute details and more how to manage people. As of right now, SigOps don't even have a specialized course on how to be a CCO, we just learn how to write CEOIs on the 6A and jump into a posting position as a WO/MWO.

 

[Swingline1984]

At the Sgt level, the sub-occupations are supposed to merge back together, and said Sgt can be employed to supervise in any of the 4 sub-occupations. The courses become common again at that point.

The 3 sub occupations (Line, Tech, IS guy) don't merge into CISTM until WO.  WARNING!!! PERSONAL OPINION ONLY:  I would have to believe that until the "super" Sigs start making their way up to that level that the wise men positions would be grandfathered to the sub occupation stream upon which they are based (w/ exceptions I'm sure).

Puck, that seems logical but will that person be able to fill in as a SME for all three sub occupations? What if he specialized in Line but has to fill in a Chief Comm Op position. Will he have enough knowledge to do the job well.

The position of CCO is tied to the ACISS core occupation and is not a role of the CISTM.