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Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS

Baz said:
What’s really funny is when warships try to be electronically something else act like a warship. Nothing like an AIS “fishing boat” scurrying to and fro at 25 knots to get somebody that has any semblance of a tactical plot interested.
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We once 'posed' as a cruise ship during Joint Warrior on one of the 280s with a shit tonne of decorative lighting on the upper decks (which may have included a fake palm tree) music and possibly a banyan. I don't think anyone was fooled but if you are going to drink the JW coolaid and pretnend to belong to some made up country at war with another made up country may as well have some fun with it.
 
On the Gatineau in '95, we snuck up behind a tanker - less than 300 yards away at night following them to get closer to a US CVN. We got to about 80 miles, then started a 'sprint' towards them. As I recall, for 'exercise' purposes, we were given an 8 pack of Harpoons which we 'fired' at CPA - 5 at the CVN and 3 at the Tico in company.

The Umps declared that 1 hit the Tico and 3 hit the CVN, and put it out of service for 3 hours.

:-)

The games we play!

Deceptive lighting is something that mostly fell off the table in the late 90s in my experience.
 
Underway said:
You might be surprised. Lots of emissions control scenario you end up bumping into each other. This is why USV's are so challenging, you don't want your radar on to be detected by the enemy, but you want your radar on to detect USV's and other ships as well. Tough decisions.
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Between NVGs and IR, as well as airborne and satellite based sensors, I doubt two SAGs would actually get too close before one of them knew about the other.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but on the balance of probabilities I doubt the Nav lights would be the main issue.
 
At least during tactical manoeuvres, you have enough people watching to avoid conflict, unlike a domestic tranist where the crew mistakes a tanker for a rock.
 
Captain Drew Graham (Director of Naval Requirements) recently did a Speakers Event for the Naval Association of Canada and had some interesting information to put forward to the public regarding unmanned and modular payloads for AOPS. All of the information and photos below are taken from his slideshow, that I will link at the bottom for anybody interested.

N0vqOvd.png


Slideshow image provided for a general idea of this below mentioned system, not photos of the system itself as far as I know.

Containerized On Board Reelable Array (COBRA)

- Designed for the AOPS.

- Active/Passive deployable sonar array.

- Receiver to take on information from sonar buoys.

- COBRA will head to the Defence Capabilities Board in March, 2025 to push it into the next developmental phase.

- Able to connect with AOPS operations room and feed data into it.

AOPS UAS, effectively a UAS program exclusively for AOPS.

- Primary use for ISR and ice spotting, software included for gauging ice thickness and makeup.

- Procuring up to 12 of these aircraft.

- Smaller and shorter ranged than ISTAR.

- 2025 to 2027 introduction timeline.

UEA (Underwater Environmental Awareness)

- Large underwater uncrewed vehicle, effectively a submarine with its own deployable towed array sonar.

- Will deploy RDFAS (Rapidly Deployable Forward Deployed Anonymous Sensors) to act as a sensor net in an area, largely to detect submarines and surface vessels.

- Able to be deployed from vessels like AOPS using containers as storage.

- Primarily designed for long duration (up to 30+ days) Arctic patrol missions.

- Secondary goals of route surveys, providing modern navigation data in remote areas.

- Funded currently, with an introduction timeline of 2031 to 2035.

 
Interesting discussion about the USCG lease of the Aiviq

forum.gcaptain.com

Icebreaker Aiviq’: A Capable Addition to Arctic or a Flawed Stopgap Solution?

The attached POAC paper about the ship’s ice trials has additional information about the Viking trio. The oversized flywheels and the fast pitch control mechanism enable quick flushing of the propeller nozzles if they are clogged by ice. POAC01_V2_p849.pdf (1.7 MB)
forum.gcaptain.com forum.gcaptain.com
 
Quick AOPS news update, HMCS Margaret Brooke made port visits to Rio de Janeiro, Brazil on February 2nd, Montevideo, Uruguay on February 8th and is currently in Buenos Aires, Argentina today (February 11th). She is deployed on Operation PROJECTION 2025 and will circumnavigate South America, alongside eventually doing scientific research within the Antarctica.

HMCS Harry DeWolf is deployed on Operation CARIBBE for counter-narcotics duties off South America, and is currently sailing off the north of Venezuela.

HMCS Max Bernays is doing work in Vancouver to support the 2025 Invictus Games through outreach and tours,
 
Rainbow1910 said:
Quick AOPS news update, HMCS Margaret Brooke made port visits to Rio de Janeiro, Brazil on February 2nd, Montevideo, Uruguay on February 8th and is currently in Buenos Aires, Argentina today (February 11th). She is deployed on Operation PROJECTION 2025 and will circumnavigate South America, alongside eventually doing scientific research within the Arctic.

HMCS Harry DeWolf is deployed on Operation CARIBBE for counter-narcotics duties off South America, and is currently sailing off the north of Venezuela.

HMCS Max Bernays is doing work in Vancouver to support the 2025 Invictus Games through outreach and tours,
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I love the reach that the 3 ships are having.
 
Rainbow1910 said:
Quick AOPS news update, HMCS Margaret Brooke made port visits to Rio de Janeiro, Brazil on February 2nd, Montevideo, Uruguay on February 8th and is currently in Buenos Aires, Argentina today (February 11th). She is deployed on Operation PROJECTION 2025 and will circumnavigate South America, alongside eventually doing scientific research within the Arctic.

HMCS Harry DeWolf is deployed on Operation CARIBBE for counter-narcotics duties off South America, and is currently sailing off the north of Venezuela.

HMCS Max Bernays is doing work in Vancouver to support the 2025 Invictus Games through outreach and tours,
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Shouldn't that read the Antarctic for the MARGARET BROOKE? That is a trip of a lifetime for the crew for sure. Cruise companies are charging upwards of 25000 for 10 days to the South Shetlands.
 
YZT580 said:
Shouldn't that read the Antarctic for the MARGARET BROOKE? That is a trip of a lifetime for the crew for sure. Cruise companies are charging upwards of 25000 for 10 days to the South Shetlands.
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Its a great go, but my question is why? I listened to a clip from the CO, and she says, they have done everything but paint the ship red and white to show it is on a scientific mission, and not in the area as a warship or on a sovereignty mission.

Given the current fiscal reality, is there nothing better that the ship could be doing than being a research vessel? Unless this is a role the AOPs and the Navy had in mind for it from the beginning.
 
captloadie said:
Its a great go, but my question is why? I listened to a clip from the CO, and she says, they have done everything but paint the ship red and white to show it is on a scientific mission, and not in the area as a warship or on a sovereignty mission.

Given the current fiscal reality, is there nothing better that the ship could be doing than being a research vessel? Unless this is a role the AOPs and the Navy had in mind for it from the beginning.
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It's called showing the flag although I suspect there aren't too many people inside the Government who even understand the concept.
I wonder who on the political side of this signed off on it ?
It's actually quite cleaver on several levels,the diplomatic/ military implications are interesting...
 
captloadie said:
Its a great go, but my question is why? I listened to a clip from the CO, and she says, they have done everything but paint the ship red and white to show it is on a scientific mission, and not in the area as a warship or on a sovereignty mission.

Given the current fiscal reality, is there nothing better that the ship could be doing than being a research vessel? Unless this is a role the AOPs and the Navy had in mind for it from the beginning.
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A few points I would put forward:

- Training personnel and providing experience at sea, AOPS is a new class and getting serious deployments with substantial length is very valuable. Personnel generation for the class is important as it had been previously sidelined due to a lack of qualified Martechs as far as I am aware.

- Prestige/morale, this is the first time the RCN has ever deployed to the Antarctic and a trip throughout South America is excellent for boosting morale. This is the kind of deployment that makes peoples careers and they never forget, especially when they are getting paid for a deployment unlike Arctic work.

- Building international connections, going to ports and meeting with our allies/international partners is a good use of our time given the value it can provide.

- Antarctic research, this information is very important and it allows Canada to get involved somewhere it usually is not. It can help give us perspective on our own Arctic and global warming, as it affects all of us.

- Lack of other work, Harry DeWolf is deployed to the Caribbean on drug interdiction roles and the Arctic is not navigable this time of year. No other notable deployments that would be better for an AOPS at this time.

- Selling AOPS abroad, New Zealand had been previously interested in the design for Antarctic use but they canceled their program due to cost issues.
 
Using Chinese logic, "Because we are a near Antarctic nation" :cool:

Seriously though Rainbow1910 points are spot on and this plays into the moves we have made regarding icebreaking technology. Very few nations operate both in the Artic and Antarctic and this will now put us into a exclusive club and we gain valuable knowledge of the operating challenge of the region, show off Canadian technology to countries that we have close ties with and it helps make Canada look like a more serious nation to the smaller powers.
 
Rainbow1910 said:
Prestige/morale, this is the first time the RCN has ever deployed to the Antarctic and a trip throughout South America is excellent for boosting morale.
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Is rounding Cape Horn considered Antarctic adjacent? I was in HMCS Kootenay when we did that in 95.
 
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