Another Boring Rant on US Politics

[spenco]

No offense but I can see by a few of your replies, you don't have a full idea beyond what your favorite source has told you to believe.

Ok, try not watching farenheight 9/11 for a whole week alright?

I live here, and mister, I fully understand and can see what is happening. Our govenment is using the terrorist situation as a shield to do as they please.

Can you provide some examples?

They're already to go slicing and dicing our constitution. It's what they do. The Patriot Act. Do you really believe a sound, self thinking American supports this? Proably. We're just a bunch whatever stupid sarcastic name you place upon us. Little by little, Americans are buying the farm. Little by little, they're willing to give up civil rights and freedoms, so they can feel safe.

Is feeling safe a bad thing?  Yes, individuals have rights and those should be upheld but the society also has rights that supercede individual rights in some circumstances IMHO.  Anything related to national security and preventing another 9/11 is certainly worth the inconvienence.

Yeah, so they can feel safe sitting pigging down their super sized meal in front of ignorant reality television. Most of them, don't even know who the Speaker of the House is, but they support him. They support, The Patriot Act. This is just one aspect. There are more. It might not sound like much to you, you're Canadian, but to an American whose paying attention, the freakin' writing is on the wall. So, go ahead and answer with more of the same.

Do they need to know who the speaker of the house is to make a desicion?  IIRC it is the vice-president correct?  if so then yes, they would support him because he obviously got the votes neccesary to have the job.  You bring up the patriot act; I believe it is a good thing, what is so bad about giving information to the gov't in regards to national security?  I assume you would call 911 if you saw someone getting mugged on the street, so why not do the same thing on an international level.  It is an invasion of privacy in some cases but not an undue one.  BTW, what are those "other aspects"

It doesn't speak well of your site, as I haven't insulted you but go ahead.

It dosent speak well of this site because the members here don;t agree with your views on Bush?  

 

[48Highlander]

Back on topic.. the sad thing is I can see both of your sides and points. Instead of butting heads over the issues endlessly, do you think it's possible to somehow merge the two trains of thought, or at least, find common ground..?

Just some random thought

It's not the fact that she disagrees with anyone that's a problem.  I LIKE being disagreed with.  Who wants to be surrounded with yes-men all the time?  It gets boring fast.  No, the problem is that she hasn't really SAID ANYTHING.  She rants and raves and complains a lot, but does she clearly define what it is she has a problem with?  Does she provide any evidence to support anything she says?  Just scroll through the last couple posts and you'll see what I mean.  A_Majoor throws out a bunch of well thought out and well phrased points, provides some information to support his stance, and the best that she can do in the way of a response is "I live here, and mister, I fully understand and can see what is happening".  Then she continues ranting and raving about a bunch of somewhat-related topics without going into any detail on any of them.  That's not an discussion, it's more of a temper-tantrum.

 

[spenco]

You fail to mention under which 'pretense' The Patriot Act was passed. Do you know? Let's be real, shall we? How many politicians are going up against the greatest public show of patriotism since Pearl Habor? Does that mean, The Patriot Act should have been passed. No, but it was. And this prevails even today. The Bush administration uses it like an ace in the hole in a poker game. Rather effectively too.

That pretense still exists today and rightly so, your nation is fighting a war which the rest of the world wont fight. while I may not be Bush's biggest fan I do agree with the majority of his desicions thus far, including passing the patriot act and liberating Iraq.

Do you take my disapproval of my government as not supporting the military? I am sincerely interested in your or any military person's answer.

You havent exactly pledged your unfledging support to the military have you?

Also, I was wondering if there is a thread of a place to begin a thread where I can ask Canadians (you guys/gals) about your healthcare system. I am interested in hearing directly from the citizens. You know, the pros and cons. Is it a bad idea or a good idea that's not being implemented well. Or is it a great system.

Hehe I wouldn't advise getting the people here started in regards to the healthcare system.

 

[MagieNoire]

It's not the fact that she disagrees with anyone that's a problem.  I LIKE being disagreed with.  Who wants to be surrounded with yes-men all the time?  It gets boring fast.  No, the problem is that she hasn't really SAID ANYTHING.  She rants and raves and complains a lot, but does she clearly define what it is she has a problem with?  Does she provide any evidence to support anything she says?  Just scroll through the last couple posts and you'll see what I mean.  A_Majoor throws out a bunch of well thought out and well phrased points, provides some information to support his stance, and the best that she can do in the way of a response is "I live here, and mister, I fully understand and can see what is happening".  Then she continues ranting and raving about a bunch of somewhat-related topics without going into any detail on any of them.  That's not an discussion, it's more of a temper-tantrum.

Like I mentioned in my email to you. I research and do the work of finding my own facts. You should do the same as well.

Sweeping generalizations as hyped as they may sound are not sound facts. This rule applies both ways.

Look up The Patriot Act. Look up what it allows our government to do. Look. Then with an open mind, think. Look back at the time table and see how, when and under which pretense it was passed. Why should I have to go and look it up for you? Why do I have to bring you the information? If you feel I am having a meaniless temper tantrum, why respond to me? Our government is now allowed to search our private information and we don't even have to be notified about it. I don't know what is the law of your land is but this is a bad thing for Americans.

Have you heard of Pandora's Box? If not, just Google it. The Patriot Act is a Pandora's Box that's been opened. Just as The Supreme Court's decision in the 2000 election set a precedent. The bell has been rung so to speak. As you know, it is difficult to unring a bell.

How are any of the above statements having a temper tantrum?

My ego isn't that fragile or in need. If I have attacked someone, then point it out to me. I will galdly apologize because I'd rather do what's right, than be right. Integrity is paramount with me.

Anyway, about the healthcare in Canada. I'm interested in it. Will someone start a thread or point me to an existing thread?

Thanks.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

How many politicians are going up against the greatest public show of patriotism since Pearl Habor? Does that mean, The Patriot Act should have been passed. No, but it was.

So unless you have some sort of planet destroying inside information, this is just conjecture on your part.

Do you take my disapproval of my government as not supporting the military? I am sincerely interested in your or any military person's answer.

I never inferred anything of the sort

Also, I was wondering if there is a thread of a place to begin a thread where I can ask Canadians (you guys/gals) about your healthcare system. I am interested in hearing directly from the citizens. You know, the pros and cons. Is it a bad idea or a good idea that's not being implemented well. Or is it a great system.

Our country's healthcare system is in bad shape. Anyway, I don't know where or how or if I am suppose to be able to ask.

If you want to start a thread on it, go ahead. Go to the main forum page click 'Political" and then "New Topic"

You'll probably find most of us are disillusioned at the state of our system and the black hole the money dissappears in with the corresponding loss of service.

BTW, The Speaker of the House is Dennis Hastert, currently serving his fourth term in that capacity.

 

[MagieNoire]

That pretense still exists today and rightly so, your nation is fighting a war which the rest of the world wont fight. while I may not be Bush's biggest fan I do agree with the majority of his desicions thus far, including passing the patriot act and liberating Iraq.


You havent exactly pledged your unfledging support to the military have you?


Hehe I wouldn't advise getting the people here started in regards to the healthcare system.

To take liberties away and or invade them in the name of liberating Iraq and fighting terrorism is an oxy moron in my mind. Terrorism has been around for years and years. Only under the current administration has it sought to open this Pandora's Box. Look deeper.

I haven't stated I do not support the military. In fact, I have stated over and over that I do support the military. I do not support my government's current policies. There is a differnce.

Geez, healthcare is a bad topic? So, this means is really bad?

Hmmm, won't anyone explain or say without bugging out about it?

If not, nervermind.

 

[spenco]

Why should I have to go and look it up for you? Why do I have to bring you the information? If you feel I am having a meaniless temper tantrum, why respond to me?

You should look it up because YOU are the one making the accusations, you are the one who is making blind statements without backing up your statements with facts or statistics.  We shouldn't have to research to see if your argument is either brilliant or way out in left field.  It is up to you to give yourself credibility, not for us to research.  

Our government is now allowed to search our private information and we don't even have to be notified about it. I don't know what is the law of your land is but this is a bad thing for Americans.

Ok, say you are notified, what good would it do?  Or would it just piss you off?  Why bother notifying you if you can't do anything about it anyways.

Have you heard of Pandora's Box? If not, just Google it. The Patriot Act is a Pandora's Box that's been opened. Just as The Supreme Court's decision in the 2000 election set a precedent. The bell has been rung so to speak. As you know, it is difficult to unring a bell.

Your point being...?

How are any of the above statements having a temper tantrum?

Perhaps not but you still have not backed up your statements with facts or statistics.

Anyway, about the healthcare in Canada. I'm interested in it. Will someone start a thread or point me to an existing thread?

Do a search or start a thread up yourself.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

This thread is not about healthcare, nor will it be diverted that way. You asked how to start a Topic and were given more instruction than most would've got. If you want to know about something outside this thread, start your own Topic on it.

 

[spenco]

To take liberties away and or invade them in the name of liberating Iraq and fighting terrorism is an oxy moron in my mind. Terrorism has been around for years and years. Only under the current administration has it sought to open this Pandora's Box. Look deeper.

Yes, it has been around for years BUT terrorism has never struck on such a massive scale on US soil before.   IMHO your argument has no merit on that basis.

I haven't stated I do not support the military. In fact, I have stated over and over that I do support the military. I do not support my government's current policies. There is a differnce.

I apoligize if you did say that you supported the military, I did not see it.

Geez, healthcare is a bad topic? So, this means is really bad?

This topic is not about healthcare, start another topic if you want to hear about it so badly.

P.S. Recceguy you beat me to it...you replyed while I was typing.

 

[48Highlander]

Like I mentioned in my email to you. I research and do the work of finding my own facts. You should do the same as well.
Sweeping generalizations as hyped as they may sound are not sound facts. This rule applies both ways.

Which is why I haven't made any.  I'm waiting for you to return the favour.

Look up The Patriot Act. Look up what it allows our government to do. Look. Then with an open mind, think. Look back at the time table and see how, when and under which pretense it was passed. Why should I have to go and look it up for you? Why do I have to bring you the information? If you feel I am having a meaniless temper tantrum, why respond to me? Our government is now allowed to search our private information and we don't even have to be notified about it. I don't know what is the law of your land is but this is a bad thing for Americans.

As has been pointed out already, when you make allegations it's up to you to provide evidence.  If you can't understand such a simple concept then you really have no place discussing politics in the first place.

Secondly, I HAVE read through the patriot act.  The main thrust of it is breaking down barriers between agencies, thus allowing them to communicate more effectively.  It does provide some new ways for the government to "violate your privacy", however these violations are very minor and don't bother me in the least.  As for your ranting about violation of privacy, as far as I know, the constitution does not gaurantee you a right to privacy, nor are there any laws to that effect.  I as a private citizen can follow you, observe you, check your personal records, and otherwise violate your privacy all I want.  The government DID place certain restrictions on law-enforcement agencies, however, since the government placed them, the government can revoke them.  C'est la Vie.

Have you heard of Pandora's Box? If not, just Google it. The Patriot Act is a Pandora's Box that's been opened. Just as The Supreme Court's decision in the 2000 election set a precedent. The bell has been rung so to speak. As you know, it is difficult to unring a bell.

How are any of the above statements having a temper tantrum?

Two words:  Drama Queen

 

[MagieNoire]

You should look it up because YOU are the one making the accusations, you are the one who is making blind statements without backing up your statements with facts or statistics.  We shouldn't have to research to see if your argument is either brilliant or way out in left field.  It is up to you to give yourself credibility, not for us to research.  

Ok, say you are notified, what good would it do?  Or would it just piss you off?  Why bother notifying you if you can't do anything about it anyways.

Your point being...?

Perhaps not but you still have not backed up your statements with facts or statistics.

Do a search or start a thread up yourself.

I have no idea what laws you have in Canada but in America (well, this use to be the case) the government couldn't usurp and or invade a citizens privacy and or rights. This has all changed now. Americans no longer have this protection from its government.

Here is an example. http://tinyurl.com/tt9y (I even made the url a tiny one, how sweet)

Mind you, I am not for crime and I would not want people such as these doing whatever they please. However, the government's use of TPA was overstepped. This is just a single case. There are more, look them up at Google. A few key words are all you need.

I do not have to prove anything to you or anyone here, and I am not trying too. I haven't seen any evidence to support any claims stated here.

Information can be flung around to support anyone's chosen view. It must be sifted through and really looked at in its proper context.

I've already looked up Canadian healthcare. Americans discuss our system and yours often. Still, I thought it would be interesting to hear from 'the people' who are living under such a system. I'm wondering if your system is flawed or just not being implimented properly.

I dunno, I've always held Canada in high esteem for provding its citizens with healthcare. In America, only the well to do (wealthy) get proper healthcare if any healthcare at all.  If you people don't think I should ask or make a thread, then I won't. What's the point.

 

[MagieNoire]

Which is why I haven't made any.  I'm waiting for you to return the favour.

As has been pointed out already, when you make allegations it's up to you to provide evidence.  If you can't understand such a simple concept then you really have no place discussing politics in the first place.

Secondly, I HAVE read through the patriot act.  The main thrust of it is breaking down barriers between agencies, thus allowing them to communicate more effectively.  It does provide some new ways for the government to "violate your privacy", however these violations are very minor and don't bother me in the least.  As for your ranting about violation of privacy, as far as I know, the constitution does not gaurantee you a right to privacy, nor are there any laws to that effect.  I as a private citizen can follow you, observe you, check your personal records, and otherwise violate your privacy all I want.  The government DID place certain restrictions on law-enforcement agencies, however, since the government placed them, the government can revoke them.  C'est la Vie.

Two words:  Drama Queen

Drama queen? Why? You seem to be the only one going drama-rama. I guess, the name calling is your way of chasing off those who disagree with you? Your post says, nothing. It makes no statement of fact. Yet, you pass it off as such.

Perhaps, Canadians don't have or haven't ever had the same liberties as Americans. I really don't know, so I can't say.

I can only guess by your statements on the matter, you are clueless as to the significance of the TPA. So, you've read TPA. Okay.

Perhaps, you'd have to be American to 'get it'. Nevermind. I have desire to degrade into a name calling, immature discussion with you.

I do not make allegations. I'm living here and stating the current state of our country. Go find a new, newbie and share your sunshine with them.

I'm done with you.

 

[48Highlander]

moderators?  lock?

 

[MagieNoire]

moderators?   lock?

Why? Because I said I don't want to argue with you?

I don't. Why is this a problem?