Alternate for the CIC
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Ok, kinda off topic..but I thought I would mention it. Today at some community event, the local army cadets were employed in traffic control, and even though they looked to be youngest of the lot they were doing quite well in the cold rainy weather. When I was walking from my car I noticed that there was a CIC Capt there, looking after the cadets. She was out there in the weather with them, and looking after them. And I was very impressed, there are many that would have huddled inside closely gripping their Tim Hortons... but not this officer...Well done, that was leadership.
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Think I was at the same event Scott. Was very impressed with the "kids". My wife (also in the forces) and I were discussing how un-supported kit-wise they are. Seems to us that all of those greens we turned in could be used by them... not to mention our used Mk IIIs. 
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Canadian Sig for CDS!!!
haha, that would be nice!
I always try and employ a lead from the front attittude with my cadets as well, although i believe Cadets are technically (by the rules) not suppose to be allowed to do traffic control, i'll have to some CATO searching.
cheers
PV
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Canadian Sig said:Think I was at the same event Scott. Was very impressed with the "kids". My wife (also in the forces) and I were discussing how un-supported kit-wise they are. Seems to us that all of those greens we turned in could be used by them... not to mention our used Mk IIIs.
Petawawa? Granted I was only there at 0930
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CANFORGEN 081/05 VCDS 016 270938Z APR 05
CLARIFICATION ON THE USE OF CADET INSTRUCTOR CADRE (CIC) OFFICERS OUTSIDE THE CANADIAN CADET MOVEMENT
Didn't realize this was already posted this morning in a separate thead
CLARIFICATION ON THE USE OF CADET INSTRUCTOR CADRE (CIC) OFFICERS OUTSIDE THE CANADIAN CADET MOVEMENT
Didn't realize this was already posted this morning in a separate thead
D
dogg
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I have been in the CIC for 12 + years. Primarily on the air side.
I agree that we have an image problem. But I also think we all CIC elements are painted with one broad brush. From my experience we work closely with our Reg. Force counterparts. We attend the same flight safety courses, we have had members attend the Canadian Forces Instructors school (Flying). Recently we have aligned our training standards and instructional standards with that of 3CFTS. Our gliding schools have regular force appointed standards officers.
I have checked out and instructed regular force NCM's and officers alike, Everything revolves around earning respect. I personally do not care if I am saluted or not. At the end of the day I have a job to do and under Transport Canada and Reg. Force Ops. Guidelines.... I do so.
Many, CIC are in the system for glorification other than working and molding youth. It is a shame but all organizations have their deficiencies. Many CIC get the courses out of the way because they think Rank means you get respect. I have met Captains that are useless and 2Lt's that you would be amazed at what they can do professionally.
Training needs to be addressed, I agree but people seem to be under the impression that BOQ is all that is required.
I have not only taken the required courses to be a SQN officer but all the courses that allow me to do my job as a pilot in the CIC. Including a few Reg. Force courses.
Again don't paint us all with one not so informed brush. Spend some time in Army, Navy, Air camps and Sailing centers and gliding centers.
Drop in to a Regional gliding school then tell us what you think of the CIC. Basing all your comments on one summer at an Army cadet camp is very narrow minded and misleading. Hell go on the cadet para course. Go on a Sailing weekend when they practice with search and rescue CF units!
As an officer I am mandated as a leader! We all are, we just have a piece of paper that sets it out in eloquent English. When you have an officer staff and cadet staff , 3 airplanes in a flying environment... leadership is truly required. You teach a 16 year old to fly before he has drivers license... Then tell me if I have earned my commission. That is not to say I still need to earn peoples respect for being someone of sound moral character. In uniform and out!
Many of my students from gliding are CF-18 drivers, Herc. Pilots, Paramedics and a police officer. We are tasked to motivate and mold Youth and show them what the forces are all about. I think I have provided the basic fundamentals to the Herc. and 18 pilot for example as DND hopes to get out of the program.
Cheers
I agree that we have an image problem. But I also think we all CIC elements are painted with one broad brush. From my experience we work closely with our Reg. Force counterparts. We attend the same flight safety courses, we have had members attend the Canadian Forces Instructors school (Flying). Recently we have aligned our training standards and instructional standards with that of 3CFTS. Our gliding schools have regular force appointed standards officers.
I have checked out and instructed regular force NCM's and officers alike, Everything revolves around earning respect. I personally do not care if I am saluted or not. At the end of the day I have a job to do and under Transport Canada and Reg. Force Ops. Guidelines.... I do so.
Many, CIC are in the system for glorification other than working and molding youth. It is a shame but all organizations have their deficiencies. Many CIC get the courses out of the way because they think Rank means you get respect. I have met Captains that are useless and 2Lt's that you would be amazed at what they can do professionally.
Training needs to be addressed, I agree but people seem to be under the impression that BOQ is all that is required.
I have not only taken the required courses to be a SQN officer but all the courses that allow me to do my job as a pilot in the CIC. Including a few Reg. Force courses.
Again don't paint us all with one not so informed brush. Spend some time in Army, Navy, Air camps and Sailing centers and gliding centers.
Drop in to a Regional gliding school then tell us what you think of the CIC. Basing all your comments on one summer at an Army cadet camp is very narrow minded and misleading. Hell go on the cadet para course. Go on a Sailing weekend when they practice with search and rescue CF units!
As an officer I am mandated as a leader! We all are, we just have a piece of paper that sets it out in eloquent English. When you have an officer staff and cadet staff , 3 airplanes in a flying environment... leadership is truly required. You teach a 16 year old to fly before he has drivers license... Then tell me if I have earned my commission. That is not to say I still need to earn peoples respect for being someone of sound moral character. In uniform and out!
Many of my students from gliding are CF-18 drivers, Herc. Pilots, Paramedics and a police officer. We are tasked to motivate and mold Youth and show them what the forces are all about. I think I have provided the basic fundamentals to the Herc. and 18 pilot for example as DND hopes to get out of the program.
Cheers
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That paranoid eh Burrows?
But any person who is willing to get in an a/c with a 16 year old at the controls desereves a medal for bravery or something........or at least that cool instructor badge.......
But any person who is willing to get in an a/c with a 16 year old at the controls desereves a medal for bravery or something........or at least that cool instructor badge.......
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Oh boy, do I have a few questions for you. Let's start with FIS.
Which FIS? To my knowledge the only FIS's that exist are in Moose Jaw at 2 CFFTS on the Harvard II and Hawk, and 3 CFFTS on the Jet Rangers and King Airs. Even instructors at the OTU's don't hold instructional categories nor do they go to FIS. The do an abbreviated "learn to be an instructor" at the OTU to learn how to teach. They're not Qualified Flight instructors, they simply teach the aircraft that they've been flying for 5 years.
Having said that, I'd really be interested in learning when and why a CIC officer would go to FIS when they don't hold military instructional categories and what use learning to teach on a Harvard II would do them in a glider or Cessna 172 that goes 1/4 the speed.
Again, checked out and instructed on what? Cessna's? It couldn't have been much more than that since all flight instructors in Moose Jaw and Portage (except PFT) are military trained instructors that wear CF Pilot Wings. Not a big deal, I also have a Commercial licence, I could check someone out. It doesn't have to be a flight instructor.
About those Reg Force Ops guidelines, what's the name of the orders? IE, the military equivalent of the CARs.
dogg said:
Which FIS? To my knowledge the only FIS's that exist are in Moose Jaw at 2 CFFTS on the Harvard II and Hawk, and 3 CFFTS on the Jet Rangers and King Airs. Even instructors at the OTU's don't hold instructional categories nor do they go to FIS. The do an abbreviated "learn to be an instructor" at the OTU to learn how to teach. They're not Qualified Flight instructors, they simply teach the aircraft that they've been flying for 5 years.
Having said that, I'd really be interested in learning when and why a CIC officer would go to FIS when they don't hold military instructional categories and what use learning to teach on a Harvard II would do them in a glider or Cessna 172 that goes 1/4 the speed.
Again, checked out and instructed on what? Cessna's? It couldn't have been much more than that since all flight instructors in Moose Jaw and Portage (except PFT) are military trained instructors that wear CF Pilot Wings. Not a big deal, I also have a Commercial licence, I could check someone out. It doesn't have to be a flight instructor.
About those Reg Force Ops guidelines, what's the name of the orders? IE, the military equivalent of the CARs.
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GunnerySgtHartman
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standards do need to be raised, but who is going to do something about it?
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aesop081
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dogg said:
Inch, i just noticed this post and, i think that i smell a rat.
Dogg:
I would like to know what trade were those reg force NCMs you checked out ? There are 2 aircrew NCM trades and you are not qualified to administer check rides to either one.
Considering that you have a blank profile and have made only one post, i can safely assume that you will never reply to this and that Inch and i will nevr get our answers.
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Aesop,
He could mean Offr and NCMs who volunteer at Cadet Gliding Sites. And Inch, FIS? Flight Instructor- Standards? Just curious.
Scott
He could mean Offr and NCMs who volunteer at Cadet Gliding Sites. And Inch, FIS? Flight Instructor- Standards? Just curious.
Scott
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aesop081
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Scott937 said:
You may be right...but the rest of the post is still suspicious.
FIS = Flight Instructor School
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Now I'm not one of the flying CIC types even though I wear blue, but in my time in the CIC (also 12+ years now plus some PRES time) I have never heard of this happening. I noted that His job is with Transport Canada, perhaps there was some cross over from civvie side, but that's the only way I see this happening. Last I checked, we were not to be employed as instructors outside the RCIS structure or our cadet units. If this is a flying center specific set of orders and instructions, my bad, but a brand new one on me.
However his coment about not hitting us all with a broad brush is a good one, and one made several times. Being in Ottawa alot, I've met alot of people at fort fumble dealing with the standards issue, and I don't see it changing without some real grass roots push. A friend is now working with a corps in Ottawa, and he seems to be of the same opinion. But everything seems to come back to cost, the CIC are a cost effective way to address the Forces need to employ staff and instructors without impacting operational personnel given the current operational tempo. So to stay cost effective, selection follws different standards. The CIC officers didn't ask for the seperate standard, we just deal with it, even though many feel as this forum does that there should be one acceptable standard for all.
Perhaps its time for a new thread on any good experiences you guys have had with CIC officers. I'd like to hear some of them, and I'm sure some of the junior CIC here would like to learn from the example as well.
However his coment about not hitting us all with a broad brush is a good one, and one made several times. Being in Ottawa alot, I've met alot of people at fort fumble dealing with the standards issue, and I don't see it changing without some real grass roots push. A friend is now working with a corps in Ottawa, and he seems to be of the same opinion. But everything seems to come back to cost, the CIC are a cost effective way to address the Forces need to employ staff and instructors without impacting operational personnel given the current operational tempo. So to stay cost effective, selection follws different standards. The CIC officers didn't ask for the seperate standard, we just deal with it, even though many feel as this forum does that there should be one acceptable standard for all.
Perhaps its time for a new thread on any good experiences you guys have had with CIC officers. I'd like to hear some of them, and I'm sure some of the junior CIC here would like to learn from the example as well.
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