Allowances - Post Living Differential (PLD) [MERGED]

[Remius]

We don't get a union, this is a close to fighting for more as we can get. Having unionized public sector employees come in here and tell us to be content with what we are given is frankly ridiculous...

That isn’t at all what he was getting at.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

We don't get a union, this is a close to fighting for more as we can get. Having unionized public sector employees come in here and tell us to be content with what we are given is frankly ridiculous...

No....you have it better, you'll never have to lose a day's pay to get your raises, the PS Union takes that chance for you.

 

[Furniture]

No....you have it better, you'll never have to lose a day's pay to get your raises, the PS Union takes that chance for you.

Thank you for your service.

 

[brihard]

It takes impressive mental gymnastics to be cool with your union fighting for as much as they can get, but wanting the CAF to be "responsible" with public funds.

No it doesn’t. Both are entirely consistent and non-contradictory. Reaching a consensus between employer and union can here both make compromises is exactly how it works.

We don't get a union, this is a close to fighting for more as we can get. Having unionized public sector employees come in here and tell us to be content with what we are given is frankly ridiculous...

Absolutely, but I’m not doing that. I’ve expressed several times where I think there are weaknesses and things done poorly with CFHS, as well as the raise on its own being inadequate. So I guess you’re addressing this to Bruce.

No....you have it better, you'll never have to lose a day's pay to get your raises, the PS Union takes that chance for you.

No, but neither do other essential services, which is the best (albeit still poor) comparator to the military. My profession doesn’t have the right to strike; our collective bargaining is backed by binding arbitration. Same with a lot of services. While CAF may have a quasi-peg to Public Service union agreements, I’m not convinced that’s to CAF’s benefit. I think it’s more of a constraint that anything, at least for NCMs.

 

[Ostrozac]

When I joined (I know...I know...) it was mandatory for me to reside in the barracks and eat in the mess. And when I wanted to move out, I had to request permission in writing to my chain of command demonstrating I could afford it in order to be granted authorization to move out of the barracks...

The CAF has largely lost the ability or desire to build and operate Single Quarters for trained personnel. The CAF struggles to do so even for untrained personnel. This puts us out of synch with our closest partners, the UK and the US, who still believe in the value of barracks and mess halls, albeit sometimes rather dismal and squalid barracks and mess halls.

 

[Good2Golf]

This is after all, the same Government that gave $billions away for people to fo nothing for months on end not even a couple of years ago.

The sums we are talking here is chump change.

$30 million.... that's a drop in the Ocean of Government Largesse.

…it’s only $15,000,000,000 they’re not bothered to recover… you could only look after the CAF CFHD thing (…does some math…) 500 times over, with that kind of cash.

I think youre right. I think many folks would pick geographic stability work life balance over progression. But we don't encourage people to be "Golden Corporals". I would love to a Dept full of good GCs. They are worth their weight in gold.

They did it for Golden Captains in the pilot mosid…nothing fundamentally keeping them from doing it in other stressed (soon/likely to be stressed) mosids as well…

 

[brihard]

…it’s only $15,000,000,000 they’re not bothered to recover… you could only look after the CAF CFHD thing (…does some math…) 500 times over, with that kind of cash.


They did it for Golden Captains in the pilot mosid…nothing fundamentally keeping them from doing it in other stressed (soon/likely to be stressed) mosids as well…

Is there room to delink advanced technical training from supervisory functions? Maybe a separate branch of ranks/appointments for those not supervising or administering troops outside of strictly technical (eg work-on-the-plane) contexts? Let good techs just tech and still have career and salary growth without burdening them with administrative jobs that probably are a less than ideal use of their time anyway, or personnel management for which they may not be temperamentally suited?

 

[Furniture]

Is there room to delink advanced technical training from supervisory functions? Maybe a separate branch of ranks/appointments for those not supervising or administering troops outside of strictly technical (eg work-on-the-plane) contexts? Let good techs just tech and still have career and salary growth without burdening them with administrative jobs that probably are a less than ideal use of their time anyway, or personnel management for which they may not be temperamentally suited?

How do you incentivize becoming a leader if people can just stay on the tools, make more money than a MCpl/Sgt, and never deal with the BS?

I'm sure it's not impossible, but like CAFHD, the solutions will create more issues. It might also raise some questions about the current Officer Snr NCM pay gap, particularly given the number of degreed NCMs, and the continuing push for Snr NCMs to get degrees.

 

[Good2Golf]

Is there room to delink advanced technical training from supervisory functions? Maybe a separate branch of ranks/appointments for those not supervising or administering troops outside of strictly technical (eg work-on-the-plane) contexts? Let good techs just tech and still have career and salary growth without burdening them with administrative jobs that probably are a less than ideal use of their time anyway, or personnel management for which they may not be temperamentally suited?

This was essentially done with Captain pilots. Don’t have the link to current pay scales ATM, but check them out and you’ll see that someone can be good at a technical expert level with less focus on supervisory tasks (other than Commanding an aircraft, per the NDA, of course).

 

[brihard]

How do you incentivize becoming a leader if people can just stay on the tools, make more money than a MCpl/Sgt, and never deal with the BS?

I'm sure it's not impossible, but like CAFHD, the solutions will create more issues. It might also raise some questions about the current Officer Snr NCM pay gap, particularly given the number of degreed NCMs, and the continuing push for Snr NCMs to get degrees.

Shrug dunno. I think the US has something like that, but I don’t know how it works and I could easily be wrong. Just spitballing.

 

[dimsum]

Is there room to delink advanced technical training from supervisory functions? Maybe a separate branch of ranks/appointments for those not supervising or administering troops outside of strictly technical (eg work-on-the-plane) contexts? Let good techs just tech and still have career and salary growth without burdening them with administrative jobs that probably are a less than ideal use of their time anyway, or personnel management for which they may not be temperamentally suited?

That's sort of like what the RAF does with Specialist Aircrew edit: Professional Aircrew. Basically, you are limited in ranks (Flt Lt to maybe Wg Cdr?) and you're sidelined from any unit leadership roles. You're there to fly.

I don't know if it's just a posting or a career. It comes up (or used to) all the time in RCAF town halls.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

RAF PA (Professional Aircrew) Spine. It’s something they apply for and if selected, they move to a different pay table. Someone who is PA might never see the rank of Master Aircrew (CWO/CPO), their pay and pension will be similar. They will also never do jobs like Wing CWO jobs and will always be around a flying or training Sqadron.

 

[Halifax Tar]

How do you incentivize becoming a leader if people can just stay on the tools, make more money than a MCpl/Sgt, and never deal with the BS?

I'm sure it's not impossible, but like CAFHD, the solutions will create more issues. It might also raise some questions about the current Officer Snr NCM pay gap, particularly given the number of degreed NCMs, and the continuing push for Snr NCMs to get degrees.

If they want me to have a degree then can send me to school for it. I'm not doing it on my time.

Your point is 100% valid. Why progress if you will essentially get no pay raise from MCpl to WO ? But have all the added responsibility.

 

[Lumber]

If they want to have a degree then can send me to school for it. I'm not doing it on my time.

Your point is 100% valid. Why progress if you will essentially get no pay raise from MCpl to WO ? But have all the added responsibility.

Maybe they want the job of the WO?

I know that 17 years ago, if the recruiting centre had recommended the I go an NCM route for more money (say as a Line Technician, or NCIOP), I would have passed and still gone MARS. Unless, you know, it was A LOT more money. Like, a lot.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Maybe they want the job of the WO?

I know that 17 years ago, if the recruiting centre had recommended the I go an NCM route for more money (say as a Line Technician, or NCIOP), I would have passed and still gone MARS. Unless, you know, it was A LOT more money. Like, a lot.

That actually surprises me. MARS is a monster.

 

[Lumber]

That actually surprises me. MARS is a monster.

I've been extremely satisfied with the type and variety of work I've done as an NWO. Though I have worked with my fair share of assholes, the community has not turned out to be be anywhere near what many made it out to be when I first joined. I don't think I've ever been "bladed".

 

[Good2Golf]

Yet?

 

[dimsum]

That actually surprises me. MARS is a monster.

I started as a MARS officer (before the renaming). While I don't think I would have stayed in if I didn't OT, I still think those years were formative.

And yes, I also have worked with my fair share of assholes, but some of my best friends in the CAF are/were also MARS folks.

 

[Furniture]

Maybe they want the job of the WO?

I know that 17 years ago, if the recruiting centre had recommended the I go an NCM route for more money (say as a Line Technician, or NCIOP), I would have passed and still gone MARS. Unless, you know, it was A LOT more money. Like, a lot.

Would you feel the same way if from Lt basic to Cdr you barely received an increase in pay? As it currently stands, the difference between Lt basic to Lt PI10($2366) is greater than the pay difference between a Cpl basic and WO PI4($1853).

 

[dapaterson]

Are you discussing Lt or LtN? The former have a bunch of different scales for different entry plans and restrictions on the number of PIs despite the pay tables.