Alleged Institutional Racism/solutions in CAF (merged)

[Newapplicant78]

I am going to speak from a person of color perspective.

As a young cadet I was a witness/victim of said racism. The commanding officer at that time was a person of color such as myself. His advice was to suck it up and report it racism was something we were going to have to face throughout our lives.

Since then I have toyed with the idea of joining the CF. After experiencing said racism again as a civilian adult I decided I'm not getting paid enough in this life to handle this crap. I am now much more mature and I am hoping the individuals I come in contact with are the same (mature).

It is not that people of color don't want to join they either lack the confidence to pass the CFAT, have a total disregard for authority and/ or have no greater aspiration to better their own lives. Add a lack of information regarding the CF and you have the answer.

I saw lots of persons of color speaking with recruiting officers when I was applying. However I have read that Toronto seems to have a greater pool of visible minorities than other group and I believe that to be true.

The bottom line is our lives are in each others hands and if I feel your attitude towards another is questionable then I would advise anyone to report inappropriate behavior as we ALL have to trust each other.

As I would expect a non minority to report said racism and not laugh along or stay closed lips about the issue if they are  amongst an exclusive group when something is said.


As for the American way of doing things, they have so many other problems within their own system that it's difficult to comment. I have heard that immigrants are admitted to earn their citizenship. However, I have watched many a 20/20 and 60min programs regarding the USA army that I am speechless.

I know where I stand within the Canadian system that is all I need to know.

 

[SevenSixTwo]

I haven't seen any racism in the CF. But then again I come from the most culturally diverse unit in Canada (Caucasian is the minority).

The only racism I have ever witnessed from possible members of the CF are on these boards where people can say things anonymously.

 

[DirtyDog]

The only racism I have ever witnessed from possible members of the CF are on these boards where people can say things anonymously.

I've never seen it here and I know for a fact it wouldn't be tolerated.

As for being anonymous, I know I will choose my words much more carefully here then I would in the actual workplace since you are putting it as a matter of public record.  I may be a stranger to most people on here but it wouldn't take much to track me down in the system if I commit a serious infraction.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I haven't seen any racism in the CF. But then again I come from the most culturally diverse unit in Canada (Caucasian is the minority).

The only racism I have ever witnessed from possible members of the CF are on these boards where people can say things anonymously.

That is the largest load of bovine scatology I've witnessed in ages. And here's a warning for being a shit disturbing idiot.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[Infanteer]

This thread needs some facts.

Important thing to note is that the information in those statistics is drawn from the CF Self-Identification Survey which was instituted in the early 00s (2002 I believe).  More importantly, Part A - which is basically your tombstone data - is the only mandatory part of the survey.  Part B, self-identification (ie: I'm a blind, one-legged green-skinned woman), is competely voluntary.

In essence, this data shouldn't be taken as 100% accurate.

 

[Halifax Tar]

HALIFAX—In 2001, with a wife and her three children in tow, Private Wally Fowler, an African-Nova Scotian, was assigned to Traffic Tech training at Canadian Forces Base (CFB) Esquimalt, on Vancouver Island, British Columbia. It was not an auspicious match by any account, and since then Fowler has clung tirelessly to the assertion that he and his family were the frequent victims of racism and discrimination in Esquimalt.


More at link -> http://www.dominionpaper.ca/articles/4385

Its interesting that Mr. Fowler never seems to state he was the victim of racism by a CF member until he he cant get posted back to NS.

Then again he does make it sound as if his career shop was out to get him because of his race... I don't know what to make of this...

 

[fraserdw]

Sounds like it might be very much and it sounds like maybe members of the military covered something up with the removal of file documents although they failed to destroy the email trail which means the cover up was local and small time.  A good departmental wide cover up would have got those emails.  In these types of cover ups, with this much time passed, you will never know who really organized it or who participated.  Usually, the participants are willing dupes afraid of the rank and political power of the lead conspirator and just trying to hold on to their own careers.  I am sure everyone involved retired with honour and pension and a few medals to boot.  A man's life is destroyed because he really believed all that stuff about ethics and the fairness of our system.  Now he will most likely get a pension but that is little comfort.

 

[jollyjacktar]

A strange tale indeed.  I'm not sure on how much of it is accurate, how much speculation, how much innuendo.  I have no doubt that circumstance became a vicious circle after time. There seems to be some indication that "something" was happening.  Don't know how or if it could get ironed out after all this time. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I won't speculate. I'll wait until the investigation is complete and all the details are released..........from both sides.

 

[Furniture]

Until they come up with something substantial from either side I'm going to have to say they system is likely correct. The people running the show aren't idiots (all the time), and given the sensitive nature of the situation I highly doubt that anybody in their right mind would actively block a legitimate investigation. I'm sure every one of us on here has dealt with missing paperwork from time to time, and I highly doubt our CoC is out to get all of us.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Until they come up with something substantial from either side I'm going to have to say they system is likely correct. The people running the show aren't idiots (all the time), and given the sensitive nature of the situation I highly doubt that anybody in their right mind would actively block a legitimate investigation. I'm sure every one of us on here has dealt with missing paperwork from time to time, and I highly doubt our CoC is out to get all of us.

You're 'assuming' and you know what they say about that

 

[medicineman]

Coming from Victoria, I find some of this a little odd, well alot odd actually.  There is also the fact that we're only seeing a very sterilized one side of the story...there are some things said and unsaid that are raising some flags with me that I'll just leave at that for now.  I'll be interested to see how this pans out.

MM

 

[ModlrMike]

I too was struck by the comments about Victoria.

 

[PMedMoe]

HALIFAX—Private Wally Fowler, an African-Nova Scotian

I've been imbibing, so I'll not even look at the link (oh crap, never mind I did).....

No one would be assigned for Tfc Tech training in Esquimalt.  The school is in Borden.

Sergeant Rubin Coward, a military administrative specialist

We have those?

Okay, I had to stop reading.  End post.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

No speculation here. I've been to, stayed in and worked both coasts and locales.
The ethnic diversity, tolerance, acceptance, religious freedoms, racial equality and acceptance in Victoria, is light years ahead of anything that you will experience in or within 50 sq miles of Halifax's North End and Dartmouth. Especially in the late 60's early 70's with the closing and levelling of Africaville.

It also has, in the vast majority, SFA to do with the military.

 

[Pusser]

Something is definitely fishy.  There are a few points in the article that just don't add up.

 

[medicineman]

Something is definitely fishy. 

No pun intended  ;D?

MM

 

[Eye In The Sky]

While the public posturing of "what?  the CF do something wrong against its members??" is eloquent and loyal, we know that the fact is that there ARE CF members who are wronged in the CF.  Disagree??

- why we have the need for a Grievance System?
- why do we have the need for an Ombudsmen?

The NDA and QR & O provide direction that an IA SHALL consider and determine a grievance within 60 days.  How often does that get blown past?  Often.  So even the system we have to use to griev is flawed.  A retired judge recently reviewed the CFGS, although I have yet to see a report, and not sure it will be avail for "the masses".

Go to their sites (DGCFGA, CFGB, and the Ombudsmen) and show me where there are no decisions being made in the CF CofC that are wrong and reversed/overturned when they are looked at by IAs, the FA (CDS or DGCFGA on his behalf), CFGB.

My point?  Lets keep some reality going here.  Why does the TB, DND and the CF have documented policies on things like harassment? Because they happen.

Lets not jump on the "he must be lieing" bandwagon.   

 

[Eye In The Sky]

We have those?

If the article is correct, the guy helping him was the C Clk at 404 in 1993, so by trade likely an Admin Clerk, before Admin and Fin were married into RMS as we now know it.

Calling a Admin Clerk who is the Chief Clerk a "military administrative specialist" isn't a stretch IMO.

 

[medicineman]

Without speculating of course, having lived about a quarter of my life in Victoria, I have to say something doesn't sound right.  Being a health care professional, some of the stuff I've heard mentioned in there has other bells ringing.  Lastly, having spent 23 odd years in the CF also has some bells ringing too - both from an institutional side and from having dealt with subordinates (and sometimes even myself) that didn't get what they wanted out of their careers.  There is a system, on paper it works, but we all know in reality it's only as good as the weakest link, so yeah, somebody/bodies may have crapped the bed. 

Fact is, there are three sides to every story, and maybe even four in this case - Mr Fowler's, the CF's, the reporter's, and  what actually transpired.  We've only got 2 and a very sanitized part of another.

Hence the reason we're waiting for the rest.

MM