Alleged Institutional Racism/solutions in CAF (merged)

[RedcapCrusader]

I don't know, think about it.  Maybe when he joined the Reserves, it was one of the times he was out of his 'cultural community' for any length of time, and mixed in with others who are Canadian but identify as "XYZ-Canadian", and those cultural backgrounds don't care for each other. 

Disclaimer - I have no idea of the MNDs personal history at all, but just trying to demonstrate a scenario this is plausible.  I think it is certainly possible, maybe more so in the Reserve than Regular world.

I'm not buying it either.

He grew up in Vancouver in the 70's and 80's where there was rampant anti-Indian/Sikh behaviours going on. It only got worse in the 90's with the rise of his high school classmate Bindy Johal and the following gang wars initiated by the Punjabi Mafia.

He joined VPD in 1999, I'm sure there was no shortage of some of those racist types there too, just in the same that Baltej Singh Dhillon faced when the Supreme Court ruled that the RCMP had to permit the wearing of the turban. He has had and continues to have a very successful career, but not without some racist bumps in the road.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Wow!  That is telling. I find this very, very hard to believe that he did not experience racism prior to going in the military and subsequently the military life exposed him to said racism.

At first glance I found that statement very hard to believe too.  Moved to Canada at 5 and was 19 before he experienced racism? There's no way.
I did some reading and found a mention in an interview in Huffpost where he said "he hadn't faced racist comments as much because he'd grown up in a very multicultural part of Vancouver. But in the military, it was a new thing back then, so it came as a bit of a shock to me."

I think when he says "“I finally found out what racism was when I joined the military,” it was poor wording in an attempt to exemplify how bad the racism was.

 

[Jed]

At first glance I found that statement very hard to believe too.  Moved to Canada at 5 and was 19 before he experienced racism? There's no way.
I did some reading and found a mention in an interview in Huffpost where he said "he hadn't faced racist comments as much because he'd grown up in a very multicultural part of Vancouver. But in the military, it was a new thing back then, so it came as a bit of a shock to me."

I think when he says "“I finally found out what racism was when I joined the military,” it was poor wording in an attempt to exemplify how bad the racism was.

I sincerely hope that was the case.  I will be on watch and shoot before I form a rock solid personal opinion.

 

[mariomike]

August 14, 2019
Global News

Defence minister requests probe into racism in the Armed Forces
https://globalnews.ca/news/5766066/defence-minister-racism-armed-forces/
OTTAWA — Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan has asked Canada’s military ombudsman to investigate racism in the Canadian Forces following several high-profile incidents and a report linking service members to right-wing extremist and hate groups.

 

[Navy_Pete]

What are the 'several recent high profile' incidents?  The proud boys thing was in 2017, nothing else comes to mind.

There are already all kinds of policies to deal with this specifically, what is the ombudsman supposed to look at exactly?  Not politics, my arse; pull the other one.

30 out of 75k members is 0.04%, and 2 have already been released.  Presumably the CoC of the other 28 are capable of using the existing tools to deal with it. With all the ongoing mental health, suicide and other issues seems like the Ombudsman's time could be better spent.

 

[Blackadder1916]

As noted in the linked article they refer to having received the background for their story through recent Access to Information requests.

The following are probably the related ATI requests.

https://open.canada.ca/en/search/ati/reference/cbf3cf450a88aa11e364726020ac9da3

Organization: National Defence

Year: 2019

Month: May

Request Number: A-2018-01522

Request Summary: Briefing notes to the MND/CDS/COS/DM/ADM/GOFOs 2015-present related to right wing, alt-right, nationalist, anti-immigrant, or Nazi, neo-Nazi, citizen militia, white supremacist, white nationalist, anti-Semitic, anti-Indigenous groups or individuals w/ CA

Disposition: Disclosed in part

Number of Pages: 32

https://open.canada.ca/en/search/ati/reference/2fbd7d101c60d78050f90313768c9e10

Organization: National Defence

Year: 2019

Month: May

Request Number: A-2018-01844

Request Summary: All reports, briefing notes and memos prior to 1 January 2018 dealing (exclusively or among other things) with extreme-right movements and their infiltration into the CAF / presence among CAF members.

Disposition: Disclosed in part

Number of Pages: 129

Since they are already completed requests, they are available for "informal requests" on-line.  Having made such requests in the past, they've usually been sent out within 2 to 3 weeks.

 

[observor 69]

A news item relevant to this discussion:

"After several high-profile incidents, military's ombudsman investigating racism in Canadian Armed Forces

"Steve Morrisey devoted years of his career toward making the Canadian military a more friendly place for Indigenous members. Now, he's warning them to avoid it at all costs — at a time when the Department of National Defence is trying to recruit more Indigenous people.

The civilian employee at the DND filed a harassment complaint in 2015, alleging his military superior at Canadian Forces Base Halifax used racist terms. A DND investigation found there were two instances of harassment."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/halifax-dnd-worker-harassment-1.5246159

Based on my personal experience this report contains many of the thoughts and feelings one goes through when being harassed. A well written article.

 

[Journeyman]

What are the 'several recent high profile' incidents?  The proud boys thing was in 2017, nothing else comes to mind.

If I were cynical..... 

….I'd suggest the sailor with the "Infidel" tattoo and the need for LPC to be seen doing something positive before the election are the 'incidents.'

 

[Jarnhamar]

Not just an infidel tattoo, an infidel tattoo in the shape of a gun.

anic:

 

[mariomike]

For reference, ( open source online )

Canadian military police intelligence report, "White Supremacy, Hate Groups, and Racism in the Canadian Armed Forces," Nov. 29, 2018.

Download as PDF or read online from Scribd
https://www.scribd.com/document/411721989/White-Supremacy-Hate-Groups-and-Racism-in-The-Canadian-Armed-Forces

"Extremists in our ranks"
https://www.cjnews.com/perspectives/opinions/farber-extremists-in-our-ranks

More discussions of the report,
https://www.google.com/search?ei=37RWXajRI46QsAW8q52gCA&q=%22White+Supremacy%2C+Hate+Groups%2C+and+Racism+in+The+Canadian+Armed+Forces%22+&oq=%22White+Supremacy%2C+Hate+Groups%2C+and+Racism+in+The+Canadian+Armed+Forces%22+&gs_l=psy-ab.12..35i39.18678.39269..41137...1.0..6.1826.9273.0j4j1j3j0j2j4j1j1......1....1j2..gws-wiz.....6.5G3SLMM5sws&ved=0ahUKEwjovKLLxIfkAhUOCKwKHbxVB4QQ4dUDCAo#spf=1565963531576

 

[Jarnhamar]

But it said while 16 members of the armed forces had been linked to hate groups, and another 37 were alleged to have engaged in racist or hate-motivated conduct between 2013 and 2018, that represented only 0.1 per cent of the military population.

16 out of 95,000 active and reserve members?
Whats the criteria to be "linked" to a hate group anyways?

 

[OldSolduer]

Not just an infidel tattoo, an infidel tattoo in the shape of a gun.

anic:

Let's really drill down and see how many members of the Public Service and any contractor with the Federal government bear scrutiny.

And the RCMP.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

FFS......when you want to investigate something FOR REAL you don't announce it to the freakin' world.
"Hey, Hells Angel guys, we're going to investigate your Ottawa chapter, and here are the undercovers we're letting you patch in".

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

FFS......when you want to investigate something FOR REAL you don't announce it to the freakin' world.
"Hey, Hells Angel guys, we're going to investigate your Ottawa chapter, and here are the undercovers we're letting you patch in".

Oh......  Nobody told you?

This isn't a real investigation, it's political theatre  8)

 

[Brad Sallows]

>Let's really drill down and see how many members of the Public Service and any contractor with the Federal government bear scrutiny.

I'd rather challenge the adults to set a threshold.  Zero is commendable, but always hard to reach (diminishing returns).  Given reasonably diligent policies to unmask and evict undesirables but which are nonetheless unlikely to achieve perfection, what is the boundary at which the government response is "Yes, we know there are always going to be some problem individuals; yes, we will deal with these people if they are brought to our attention by means outside our own; no, we are not going to increase efforts beyond what we already do" ?

 

[Jarnhamar]

It sure seems like toxic leadership and a culture of sweeping garbage under the rug is doing a heck of a lot more damage to the CAF than these hate groups.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Oh......  Nobody told you?

This isn't a real investigation, it's political theatre  8)

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Halifax Tar]

This didnt seem to make much of a slash in the media.

 

[Singh47]

I've experienced people trying to use the system against me as a way to force me to give up my faith.

This didn't make a splash in the media because Sikh are fair game for harassment as long as you couch it in terms of liberalism, secularism etc.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I've experienced people trying to use the system against me as a way to force me to give up my faith.

This didn't make a splash in the media because Sikh are fair game for harassment as long as you couch it in terms of liberalism, secularism etc.

I'll call BS on the part in yellow.