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All things Charlottesville (merged)

Loachman said:
Donald Trump is far more likely to win a second term than people like Jimmy Kimmel think.

I believe the family will continue to win.

As long as, 1) losing the Popular Vote does not matter, and 2) Fox News stays friendly to them.

He understands the base.
http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/01/23/donald-trump-iowa-rally-shooting-sot.cnn
 
The overall popular vote is, and will remain, irrelevant. Had California's votes not been counted, President Trump would have won that, too - which is why the Electoral College exists: to prevent one region from determining the results for almost ever.

One candidate campaigned to win Electoral College votes - concentrating efforts in states that the other took for granted - and one did not. The former was also energetic, consistently drew huge and wildly-enthusiastic crowds, and had easily-understood and repeatable messages. The latter was tired, had dismal turnouts, had no platform, and continues to blame everybody else for her failure.

Fox News' support is nice, but so many more are paying more attention to alternate media. I started doing that during the campaign, gradually culling the number down to a reasonably credible few, which ultimately proved to be accurate. I continue to monitor those, and have added two more. Scott Adams, creator of Dilbert, has some interesting insights, although most of his videos are quite long. The amount of stuff that should be covered by MSM, but is ignored in favour of manufactured false scandals, is incredible. President Trump's base is secure, and may well increase.

I'll watch your video later, but CNN is usually right out to lunch (and dinner and a late night snack).
 
Loachman said:
I'll watch your video later, but CNN is usually right out to lunch (and dinner and a late night snack).

Watch it from any source you want. It's his words, on film.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=trump+%22shoot+somebody%22&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&dcr=0&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjSwLvyrZ3WAhWjx4MKHdF5BiIQ_AUICigB&biw=1280&bih=603
 
Loachman said:
I'll watch your video later, but CNN is usually right out to lunch (and dinner and a late night snack).

I'll ruin the surprise, it is a 48 second video of trump saying he could shoot somebody and still not lose voters.
 
More coverage from Portland on the events of yesterday. It has an interesting headline "Peaceful protesters injure two Portland Police during riot" I see many news outlets use the words "mostly peaceful" to describe protest these days. What are they channeling Miracle Max in The Princess Bride? Mostly dead is better than all dead he said, I guess mostly peaceful is better than not all peaceful but it is still bad. So that headline sums up the silliness of "mostly peaceful".

https://hotair.com/archives/2017/09/11/peaceful-protesters-injure-two-portland-police-riot/
 
Another piece from Newsweek. The headline is "The White Supremacists Who Attacked Charlottesville Are Coming Back With a Vengeance" I cant make sense of that at all. In the article they say a group called Identity Evropa is putting up posters to recruit members. Seeing the word vengeance in the title I was expecting violence.

Here is your standard Newsweek stuff.

Since September 2016, the ADL has identified 190 incidents of white supremacist leafleting or other incidents across 130 campuses in 36 states. The inauguration of Donald Trump, a man elected president on a platform of hatred, bigotry and anti-immigrant sentiments, marked a significant shift in this effort. From January to April 2016, there were nine incidents of white supremacist propaganda on U.S. campuses, but during that same four-month period in 2017, the ADL catalogued 115 incidents.

Leafleting? I don't see how that is coming back with a vengeance.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/white-supremacists-attacked-charlottesville-coming-104002832.html
 
kkwd said:
Another piece from Newsweek. The headline is "The White Supremacists Who Attacked Charlottesville Are Coming Back With a Vengeance" I cant make sense of that at all. In the article they say a group called Identity Evropa is putting up posters to recruit members. Seeing the word vengeance in the title I was expecting violence.

Here is your standard Newsweek stuff.

Leafleting? I don't see how that is coming back with a vengeance.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/white-supremacists-attacked-charlottesville-coming-104002832.html

To be fair, 1 Nazi or KKK leaflet campaign is one too many and ought to be stomped out. However, if this is occurring on 130 campuses, than it is relatively widespread. Wouldn't this be the same for the leftist/antifa movements in scale? (aside from the fear mongering "antifa is taking over the world" media)?

 
Yes, white supremacists, KKK, neo-nazis etcetera need to be dealt with, and as severely as is legally possible. There is no question about that.

"Scale"? I've yet to hear of antifa, BAMN, or other anarchists distributing leaflets, though. They lean more towards distributing other things: rocks, glass bottles, clubs/shields/bike locks to the head, cherry bombs, bear spray, metal barriers, urine, faeces etcetera. They are not discriminating in their choice of targets, either. Anybody they don't like or think that they don't like, regardless of age or gender, including police, are considered to be prey. They do not care whom they hurt, as long as they hurt somebody..

No white supremacist, KKK, or neo-nazi - save the Charger-driving anal orifice in Charlottesville - has gone anywhere near that far, to the best of my knowledge. They carry signs and shout a lot of stupid things, look pathetic and ridiculous, and that's about it. If the media and antifa stayed away, nothing would happen, nobody would know that they existed, and they'd get bored and find something else to do. They also do not wear masks like antifa thugs do and sometimes lose their jobs as a result.

They have yet to attempt to shut down anybody else's rally/protest, violently or otherwise.

Antifa's default posture is violent and vicious attack.

They have caused far more damage and injury. They are the bigger threat. They need to be treated accordingly.
 
Loachman said:
Yes, white supremacists, KKK, neo-nazis etcetera need to be dealt with, and as severely as is legally possible. There is no question about that.

"Scale"? I've yet to hear of antifa, BAMN, or other anarchists distributing leaflets, though. They lean more towards distributing other things: rocks, glass bottles, clubs/shields/bike locks to the head, cherry bombs, bear spray, metal barriers, urine, faeces etcetera. They are not discriminating in their choice of targets, either. Anybody they don't like or think that they don't like, regardless of age or gender, including police, are considered to be prey. They do not care whom they hurt, as long as they hurt somebody..

No white supremacist, KKK, or neo-nazi - save the Charger-driving anal orifice in Charlottesville - has gone anywhere near that far, to the best of my knowledge. They carry signs and shout a lot of stupid things, look pathetic and ridiculous, and that's about it. If the media and antifa stayed away, nothing would happen, nobody would know that they existed, and they'd get bored and find something else to do. They also do not wear masks like antifa thugs do and sometimes lose their jobs as a result.

They have yet to attempt to shut down anybody else's rally/protest, violently or otherwise.

Antifa's default posture is violent and vicious attack.

They have caused far more damage and injury. They are the bigger threat. They need to be treated accordingly.

Legit question- have you ever actually seen "antifa" or is everything you're saying from what you've read on conservative media?

there is no valid statistic that shows what antifa or other numbers are, so they could as likely be the same as neo-nazi's, etc as they could be higher or lower. Nobody really knows. Also, beware of over-generalizations. Like the right shouldn't be judged by the actions of neo-nazis, KKK, etc the left shouldn't be lumped in with the radical elements either. While antifa pers may throw bottles, etc we have textbooks of historical evidence of what occurs of when far right (nazis) and far left (communists) take power. Keeping nazi's minimized is A-ok with me. Antifa can be dealt with within the law like any other citizens.

Edited for tone.

 
There's a ton of videos of riots in various locations on Youtube, posted by people from both sides.

I also read/view material from a variety of viewpoints, just as I read Soviet material in my time as Int O at three Squadrons.

I tend to avoid protests and riots, and am not likely to encounter either antifa or neo-nazi thugs in any streets that I frequent, so, no, sorry - no "fear".

I was not likely to be engaged a Guards Tank Division while posted to Germany, either, nor did I live in fear of the Godless Communist Hordes, but I studied the threat and did my best to understand it, and how to counter it - perhaps that was why I did not fear it.

Do you walk through the streets afraid of random neo-nazi attacks? Why do you see them as a greater threat than those who routinely use violence indiscriminately?
 
Loachman said:
There's a ton of videos of riots in various locations on Youtube, posted by people from both sides.

I also read/view material from a variety of viewpoints, just as I read Soviet material in my time as Int O at three Squadrons.

I tend to avoid protests and riots, and am not likely to encounter either antifa or neo-nazi thugs in any streets that I frequent, so, no, sorry - no "fear".

I was not likely to be engaged a Guards Tank Division while posted to Germany, either, nor did I live in fear of the Godless Communist Hordes, but I studied the threat and did my best to understand it, and how to counter it - perhaps that was why I did not fear it.

Do you walk through the streets afraid of random neo-nazi attacks? Why do you see them as a greater threat than those who routinely use violence indiscriminately?

Where are your sources on the number of actual antifa members? The "threat" from antifa seems to be limited, which doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I just dont believe it to be the grand threat to democracy that some make it out to be. there are a ton of video's on youtube on neo-nazi attacks (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7nsltnMNNo) and on basically any topic I want to find to prove any sort of point.... here's a link to a video that purports that Jackie Kennedy killed JFK (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsZMUAeFnUw).

As for neo-nazi violence:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/01/13/leip-j13.html

https://www.splcenter.org/20100126/racist-skinheads-understanding-threat

I think the link below tells the more realistic story. Two groups of radicals clash and bad things happen. Neither side innocent.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/26/neo-nazis-protesters-violently-clash-in-sacramento.html

I dont think anyone on here as actually came on and said that antifa and radicals on the left are "good". I dont even offhand remember anyone saying that they were better than nazi's/KKK. Both are bad.



 
Congress is sending a resolution to Trump to sign.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-joint-resolution/49/text

115th CONGRESS
1st Session
S. J. RES. 49
JOINT RESOLUTION

Condemning the violence and domestic terrorist attack that took place during events between August 11 and August 12, 2017, in Charlottesville, Virginia, recognizing the first responders who lost their lives while monitoring the events, offering deepest condolences to the families and friends of those individuals who were killed and deepest sympathies and support to those individuals who were injured by the violence, expressing support for the Charlottesville community, rejecting White nationalists, White supremacists, the Ku Klux Klan, neo-Nazis, and other hate groups, and urging the President and the President’s Cabinet to use all available resources to address the threats posed by those groups.

    Whereas, on the night of Friday, August 11, 2017, a day before a White nationalist demonstration was scheduled to occur in Charlottesville, Virginia, hundreds of torch-bearing White nationalists, White supremacists, Klansmen, and neo-Nazis chanted racist, anti-Semitic, and anti-immigrant slogans and violently engaged with counter-demonstrators on and around the grounds of the University of Virginia in Charlottesville;

    Whereas, on Saturday, August 12, 2017, ahead of the scheduled start time of the planned march, protestors and counter-demonstrators gathered at Emancipation Park in Charlottesville;

    Whereas the extremist demonstration turned violent, culminating in the death of peaceful counter-demonstrator Heather Heyer and injuries to 19 other individuals after a neo-Nazi sympathizer allegedly drove a vehicle into a crowd, an act that resulted in a charge of second degree murder, 3 counts of malicious wounding, and 1 count of hit and run;

    Whereas 2 Virginia State Police officers, Lieutenant H. Jay Cullen and Trooper Pilot Berke M.M. Bates, died in a helicopter crash as they patrolled the events occurring below them;

    Whereas the Charlottesville community is engaged in a healing process following this horrific and violent display of bigotry; and

    Whereas White nationalists, White supremacists, the Ku Klux Klan, neo-Nazis, and other hate groups reportedly are organizing similar events in other cities in the United States and communities everywhere are concerned about the growing and open display of hate and violence being perpetrated by those groups: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That Congress—

(1) condemns the racist violence and domestic terrorist attack that took place between August 11 and August 12, 2017, in Charlottesville, Virginia;

(2) recognizes—

(A) Heather Heyer, who was killed, and 19 other individuals who were injured in the reported domestic terrorist attack; and

(B) several other individuals who were injured in separate attacks while standing up to hate and intolerance;

(3) recognizes the public service and heroism of Virginia State Police officers Lieutenant H. Jay Cullen and Trooper Pilot Berke M.M. Bates, who lost their lives while responding to the events from the air;

(4) offers—

(A) condolences to the families and friends of Heather Heyer, Lieutenant H. Jay Cullen, and Trooper Pilot Berke M.M. Bates; and

(B) sympathy and support to those individuals who are recovering from injuries sustained during the attacks;

(5) expresses support for the Charlottesville community as the community heals following this demonstration of violent bigotry;

(6) rejects White nationalism, White supremacy, and neo-Nazism as hateful expressions of intolerance that are contradictory to the values that define the people of the United States; and

(7) urges—

(A) the President and his administration to—

(i) speak out against hate groups that espouse racism, extremism, xenophobia, anti-Semitism, and White supremacy; and

(ii) use all resources available to the President and the President’s Cabinet to address the growing prevalence of those hate groups in the United States; and

(B) the Attorney General to work with—

(i) the Secretary of Homeland Security to investigate thoroughly all acts of violence, intimidation, and domestic terrorism by White supremacists, White nationalists, neo-Nazis, the Ku Klux Klan, and associated groups in order to determine if any criminal laws have been violated and to prevent those groups from fomenting and facilitating additional violence; and

(ii) the heads of other Federal agencies to improve the reporting of hate crimes and to emphasize the importance of the collection, and the reporting to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, of hate crime data by State and local agencies.

Passed the Senate September 11, 2017.

Secretary
 
Loachman said:
... No white supremacist, KKK, or neo-nazi - save the Charger-driving anal orifice in Charlottesville - has gone anywhere near that far, to the best of my knowledge. They carry signs and shout a lot of stupid things, look pathetic and ridiculous, and that's about it ...
Devil's advocate:  does radicalization of others - for example, this, this, this and this - count?  Some that post around here are comfortable painting entire groups based on the actions of a few, so #GoodForTheGooseGoodForTheGander, no?
 
Loachman said:
No white supremacist, KKK, or neo-nazi - save the Charger-driving anal orifice in Charlottesville - has gone anywhere near that far, to the best of my knowledge. They carry signs and shout a lot of stupid things, look pathetic and ridiculous, and that's about it.

August 14, 2017
The Cato Institute

"Islamist terrorists are the deadliest since 1992. They killed about 14 times as many people as Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists who, in turn, killed about 10 times as many people as Left Wing terrorists did."
https://www.cato.org/blog/terrorism-deaths-ideology-charlottesville-anomaly
 
FJAG said:
Interesting article on click-bait, fake news sites operating out of Macedonia.

http://money.cnn.com/interactive/media/the-macedonia-story/

:cheers:

I see there was no interest in Clinton at all, Trump was where the money was. It was not about support for him it was all about the money he could bring in. The examples of fake news they provided in the article were pretty lame "Michelle was caught cheating with Eric Holder - Obama is furious!!!" and "Bill Clinton loses it in interview - admits he's a murderer"  also "Just in : Sarah Palin hospitalized after being hit by car" as well as "Breaking: Donna Brazille dies in fiery car crash". All of this is from a site called politicspaper.com. These fake news sites have flashy headlines to draw a view and some cash but don't necessarily have interesting content.
 
mariomike said:
August 14, 2017
The Cato Institute

"Islamist terrorists are the deadliest since 1992. They killed about 14 times as many people as Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists who, in turn, killed about 10 times as many people as Left Wing terrorists did."
https://www.cato.org/blog/terrorism-deaths-ideology-charlottesville-anomaly

Is it proper to access a threat on the basis of your chance of being murdered by a certain group in any given year based on past attacks? Or is it more proper to look at current information to determine the threat. I have no clue myself but I am sure I can get some good answers here.

Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists are the second deadliest group of terrorists by ideology and account for 219 murders and 6.6 percent of all terrorist deaths. The chance of being murdered in a Nationalist or Right Wing terrorist attack was 1 in 33 million per year. The 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, the second deadliest terrorist attack in U.S. history after 9/11, killed 168 people and accounted for 77 percent of the murders committed by Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists. Left Wing terrorists killed only 23 people in terrorist attacks during this time but 13 since the beginning of 2016. Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists have only killed 5 since then, including Charlottesville. Meanwhile, the annual chance of being murdered by a Left Wing terrorist was about 1 in 330 million per year. Regardless of the recent upswing in deaths from Left Wing terrorism since 2016, Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists have killed about 10 times as many people since 1992. Terrorists with unknown or other motivations were the least deadly.
 
Interesting reflection on local reporting:


Local press under pressure: the view from Charlottesville

When an internationally newsworthy incident happens, as it did recently in Charlottesville, the Big Media descend, write and move on swiftly. But the local journalists, who were serving that community before the incident, remain and carry on reporting.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/27/local-press-under-pressure-the-view-from-charlottesville
 
Loachman said:
Republicans fought slavery and elected the first black US Senator, Hiram Revels

147 years later, there is still  only one Republican African-American US Senator - Tim Scott. *

SEPT. 14, 2017
Statement from Senator Scott:
"Antifa is bad and should be condemned, yes, but the KKK has been killing and tormenting black Americans for centuries. There is no realistic comparison. Period."

* In a subsequent news release, the White House misidentified Scott in a photo caption by calling him “Senator Tom Scott.”
 
mariomike said:
147 years later, there is still  only one Republican African-American US Senator - Tim Scott. *

Are you kidding me? Republicans are racist because they don't pick candidates by race? That's the kind of BS identity politics that lost the Democrats the election. Using race as the primary factor for picking a candidate just reinforces the negative race relations that has plagued the US. Just because someone is different skin colour doesn't mean people won't vote for them; Barrack Obama won 2 elections shutting down the notion that white Americans are so racist they won't elect a black man.
 
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