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All Things CF Firefighter (merged)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Stephanie
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Sounds like you have a complete understanding.  Don't forget, I don't work in recruiting, so my word isn't gospel.  However, there are so many personnel ahead of you that are already completed the process, that they would typically get priority.  That is, of course, unless they've settled on another trade and then everyone moves on up the list.  The fortunate part for the CF Fire Service is that, with so many personnel vying for the trade, recruiting can be selective.  This would mean that the most qualified members would likely be placed higher up on the selection list.  So your previous courses and training are not looked upon lightly, contrary to popular belief.  They could make a world of difference.  Good Luck and keep us up to date on your scenario.
Chimo!

 
Hey Heatwave...thanks for your reply!  Yes, I was informed by a recruiter that it's all about the "points"...and since I have lots of education and work experience and a good CFAT score, depending on my interview, I may place higher than someone who applied years ago.

I am near completion of the process and i'm pretty sure the trade will not open anytime soon, but when it does, i'm pretty optimistic...plus, I can wait!
 
Well well...new numbers in...65 FIRE FTR's for this fiscal year.  OH BOY.
 
How unfortunate!!!  I was told that we were supposed to be putting through 80???  I wonder what the breakdown of that would be, in regards to Occupational Transfers/Direct Entry ratio?  Hopefully they'll fill those extra 15 positons.  Thanks for the update.  I'll admit that this is the type of info I can only provide as "rumour mill."  I will not even pretend to be a reliable source for that. 
Chimo!
 
65 from the recruiting centre...Kincanucks posted the numbers.  It doesn't include OT's so it's all from civvie street or reserves to reg.  It's good numbers as it's typically 20-30 direct entry per year from what i've heard.

Heatwave, you've been in for a while...you must really love it.  Is it really a great way of life?  I mean i'm debating, but starting at $30k for a firefighter is pretty low pay.  I know it goes up every year, but even after 4 years being at $49k is about  $20k less than a civvie dept.  Plus from what I understand is that it's pretty boring?  I mean, not many calls, etc.?  During your time on bases...what does your typical day consist of?  Are you always busy...or is it like some civvie dept.'s and rest and take it easy, play cards, etc. until it's time to work (calls)?

What's it really like on the ships?  I understand you have to do a few years on them?  Also on the air force bases, what is living accomodations like?  Are meals at the mess free?  Just cuz $30k or $35k in 2nd year doesn't seem like much to support myself and my plan was to SAVE!
 
CosmoK said:
65 from the recruiting centre...Kincanucks posted the numbers.  It doesn't include OT's so it's all from civvie street or reserves to reg.  It's good numbers as it's typically 20-30 direct entry per year from what i've heard.

Heatwave, you've been in for a while...you must really love it.  Is it really a great way of life?  I mean i'm debating, but starting at $30k for a firefighter is pretty low pay.  I know it goes up every year, but even after 4 years being at $49k is about  $20k less than a civvie dept.  Plus from what I understand is that it's pretty boring?  I mean, not many calls, etc.?  During your time on bases...what does your typical day consist of?  Are you always busy...or is it like some civvie dept.'s and rest and take it easy, play cards, etc. until it's time to work (calls)?

What's it really like on the ships?  I understand you have to do a few years on them?  Also on the air force bases, what is living accomodations like?  Are meals at the mess free?  Just cuz $30k or $35k in 2nd year doesn't seem like much to support myself and my plan was to SAVE!

You know what they say...If you have a better offer somewhere else.....

The military pays you while they teach you your job, you get full medical, dental, more vacation time a year that you can shake a stick at, has all kinds of academic upgrading programs, Leave travel assistance, Service flights for free at certain times of the year and a bunch of other things.  Dont forget the oportunity to do your job all over the world.........

You can't make a living on what the military will pay you, you are doing something wrong
 
CosmoK said:
Heatwave, you've been in for a while...you must really love it.  Is it really a great way of life?  I mean i'm debating, but starting at $30k for a firefighter is pretty low pay.  I know it goes up every year, but even after 4 years being at $49k is about  $20k less than a civvie dept.  Plus from what I understand is that it's pretty boring?  I mean, not many calls, etc.?  During your time on bases...what does your typical day consist of?  Are you always busy...or is it like some civvie dept.'s and rest and take it easy, play cards, etc. until it's time to work (calls)?

What's it really like on the ships?  I understand you have to do a few years on them?  Also on the air force bases, what is living accomodations like?  Are meals at the mess free?  Just cuz $30k or $35k in 2nd year doesn't seem like much to support myself and my plan was to SAVE!

True, you most likely will make more in a civvy Department but it's not as cut and dried as you may think. Having been Industrial for the last six years I think I can safely say that we are at pretty much the top for scratch, but we work alot more hours for that pay. Starting at 30K sounds like most places across the country unless my information is wrong and I gathered it from meeting guys from Departments clear across the country.

Take a look at the courses the CF guys get. As an outsider looking in who has had the chance to hire a few former CF FF's I would say it's a darn good way to market yourself in the trade after getting some TI. And, of course, you can leave after a few years and go to a civvy competition with a stacked resume. I had a guy come in, who wanted to work in our isolated bases (???) who had a resume as long as my arm. He had left the military, done five years in Goose Bay for Serco and then wanted to try oilfield - what a catch for me.

I guess I just have a different view of it after having done the oilfield thing for a few years, it changes your outlook on firefighting as a career and makes you realize the opportunities that do exist for guys like us with some education and/or experience.

God, last year KBR was hiring FF's to work Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa for mega bucks. 35 in 35 out and 80K to sign for two years. Or the oilsands in McMurray. I had two of my guys turn down full time jobs with the city to work at the pits - the 20K signing bonus may have had something to with that decision.

Again, I have zero experience with CF FF's, just what I have learned in talking to them, just thought I'd throw this in the mix for confusion/argument/info.

Good luck in whatever you choose to do.

 
You make strong points.  Could you please explain what 'leave travel assistance' and 'service flights' are?  Also, with regard to the pay scale...whatever monthly wages it shows..do they take money out of that for pension....or is that minus taxes basically what goes in your pocket?  If they give pension ON TOP of that pay scale, then I take everything back, and the salary is great.  But if they take out of that monthly income, then that could be a tough salary to live on.  Thanks!
 
CosmoK said:
You make strong points.  Could you please explain what 'leave travel assistance' and 'service flights' are?  Also, with regard to the pay scale...whatever monthly wages it shows..do they take money out of that for pension....or is that minus taxes basically what goes in your pocket?  If they give pension ON TOP of that pay scale, then I take everything back, and the salary is great.  But if they take out of that monthly income, then that could be a tough salary to live on.  Thanks!

What they show on the pay scales is what you get BEFORE taxes, CPP, EI, pension and all that.  I wish it was what you get in your pocket !!

Leave travel assistance (LTA) i where once every fiscal year the military basicaly pays for you to travel to visit your next of kin ( like myself to go see my kids).  There are regulations to that but you get the idea.

Service flights are flights layed on by the military ( xmas time comes to mind) that are free fro service members.  Rules and regulations apply and i'm skiping the details but again, i'm sure you get the idea.

As for your comment in Bold. I live in one of the most expensive areas of the country and i manage to have 2 cars, and live quite comfortably.........It looks bad at first but you realy have nothing to complain.  When i got in......it was alot less money
 
Hey Banman, how do you like industrial FFing?  Would you rather move to a city dept?  The CF min. contract for Military FF is now FIVE years.  And the resume doesn't get as stacked as you might think.  Surely the CF looks fantastic on the resume but they certificates are not much more than NFPA1001 ff1&2, hazmat tech, driver ops, etc which many people already have to have TO GET IN.  It's the experience which is super but if one wanted to voluntarily release it's not like there is a job waiting for them on civvy street.  It's still competitive and the process to get hired can take years...some dept's only hire every 2-3 years and then the process could take a year or 2 so that military FF would be stuck without work unless they moved somewhere like where you are.

Also most dept's start at around 45-50k now and by 1st class FF which takes 4 years it's close to $70k.  But take 10% off that for pension.
 
aesop, thanks for the explanations.  Wow, so pension is deducted from that pay scale wage....ouch.  I don't know how you do it!  Surely a MCPL makes more but still, in this day and age I can see it being very difficult to make a living on less than $40k.  I don't think $30k is alot and I do know that they train you and so forth but with all the deductions and cost of living these days, it looks impossible unless you live on base in very cheap quarters.

The leave travel assistance once per year is pretty awesome.  Not sure what the service flights mean still.
 
oh yes, what's the status with specialist pay for FF now?  Has it been implemented?  Or will it?  I'm just trying to debate things as i thought that i'd be able to make a decent living for my family but it's not looking like it anymore!  Like are meals included at the bases at mess halls for at least myself?
 
Where does anyone start at 45 - 50K other than the big, big cities? Halifax starts guys at 36, IIRC. Toronto, where I have a cousin on the job, started him at 40, IIRC.

Industrial is a labour of love. Meaning you have to love the job or you won't last. Long hours, lots of driving but alot of fun and wicked pay when you see fires. You go pretty much balls to the wall during the winter months but it slows in the spring. I spent four years as a field hand then went into management and ICing on blowouts, not often you see guys getting to that elsewhere but we do because of turnover and because we have the potential to see alot of fire in a short amount of time. Longest project I ever did was 68 days. 68 days multiplied by $600 - 1500 (depending on your position) means lots of bank.

I was in McMurray for the fires of 02, Kelowna, Cranbrook and the Crowsnest for the fires of 03, I was on the G8 in Kananskis and, had Halliburton not screwed us, I would have been in for the afterparty of the last Iraq war capping the wells they sabotaged.

Like I said, it's great money but we work for it.
 
Halifax's salary reflects the cost of living, as do most cities.  I know all cities in southern ontario start at 45-50.  Same with Vancouver...47k.  You're right...smaller towns are less, but it's all relative.

Wow...you have some wicked experience!  And I do hand it to you guys...you work for the $$
 
As you said, it is relative, even in my field. But I love it and am happy. I'd go nuts sitting in a fire hall now. I fly with a helitack crew in the summers now and winter in the oilpatch, just until the east coast operations fire up and employ me full time. I wouldn't have gotten here if I didn't stick it out and that is the difference between most guys in the patch. Lots get fed up too quick with the hours and can't see the silver lining.

It is not for everyone and is very demanding in its own sense. Just like muni firefighting takes a special breed so do we. My relationship suffered for five years of me being on the road 250 plus days at a minimum, suffered through me working 20 hour days for 6 weeks during the fires of 03. But, I am back home, bought a house and can sort of relax due to that hard work. I wouldn't give any of it back.

But I'd never go back to just being in the field  >:D
 
CosmoK, I'm really not sure what you want. From your previous posts, you have a background in firefighting ei: education & volunteer FF. I don't know if your level of FF education would get you hired in any big depts. Also, I don't know about your military background. Surely you would understand, that the military pay scale goes by rank and not by occupation. Sure makes me wonder why a Secretary (RMS Clerk) who faces paper cuts all day would make the same salary as I do.

Anyway, if you compare a civilian kid and another one that joins the forces and they both have the same goal, to become firefighters, the military one will hand up at the fire hall doing his job a lot sooner than the other one. He'll be acquiring not only FF experience but also military experience that a lot of companies or Depts are looking for, like Banman mentioned. Also, he'll be getting paid for getting that education & experience while the other kid is still sitting on a school bench paying for his education and wondering if he'll get hire once he graduates. I shouldn't be saying this because, I for one get pissed off when we lose good firefighters after 5 or 6 years, with all the money that the military has spent on qualifying them, but somebody would be stupid to turn down a job offer from a big dept if that's what he wants. But, also I know a lot of people that take for granted all the benefits that we have, a few of them mentioned by AESOP, and then realise how good they had it in the military.

CosmoK, I understand that one of your concern is money, I don't know anybody that got rich in the military (money wise) but I sure know a lot of them that has a wealth of life experience, stories and the T-shirts to back their stories. Unless, you're that kid that spend all his money tuning up an old beat up Hyundai Excel, you'll make a good living. We may not be rich, but we appreciate what we have and to me, that's what counts.

Cheers...
 
Buddyhfx, thanks for your reply.

I also cannot understand why a secretary would make the same money as an infantry soldier...this is what i'm starting to learn about the system that i'm not much impressed with.  But this is the way it is...by rank as you say. 

I disagree with your point re: someone spending money on an education.  How do you think civvies get into the Air Force as FF's?  You have to have LOTS of experience as well as Fire College...they told me that straight up at the recruiting centre, so yes the money has already been spent.

Why do so many FF's leave the military after 5 years?  Obviously it can't be THAT great.  Being on a big dept. you are getting paid to be trained as well AND get possibly MORE life experience by actually responding to a vast variety of calls...like FIRES!  Medical, auto ex, hazmat, high angle, confined space, etc. etc...the list goes on.  I guess that's what the job is about. 

I'm not so sure about how there are more benefits in the military...big dept's get a great pension and can retire after 25 years...or 30...whatever they choose.  All the standard benefits are the same.  Who cares if they don't get a free flight once/year to see next of kin...they are probably living near them anyway!  And if not, they are making alot more money so can afford that cheap westjet flight.

It's a completely different lifestyle.  I've figured out that a city dept. would suit me much better.  I want to have my own home...and not move around or live in "quarters" in a "box" all the time in little hick towns where I can't live my life to the fullest.  I have TONNES of respect for the military and for the FF's in particular, but have made my decision today to stop my application and continue on with my civilian life.  I think i would be thinking differently if I was 20-25, but getting into my 30's...I think I need to settle down instead of being on a ship or air base.
 
I think you were mislead at the recruiting center. But like you said, I don't know, I've only been in the trade for 17 yrs and every year I see new faces joining up, either OT's or direct entries and most of them don't have any FF background including firefighting education. If everybody needed a degree, their wouldn't be a need for our fire academy.

There's a difference between job experience and life experience and life experience is what I was reffering to. To do your job while travelling in different part of the world and getting paid for doing this, to me, this is a part of getting life experience. I had a kid on my crew the other day telling me that he was getting frustrated because he hasn't seen any dead bodies yet. I told him that the first priority of a firefighter is to try to not see dead bodies and that maybe the reason for this was probably because we were doing a good job as far as prevention is concern, which is a bis aspect of our job. Maybe he's not ready to see dead bodies and he doesn't know that yet. For me, I've seen enough on deployments, that I don't wanna see one corpse anymore.

You seem to think that we all live in a trailer and that we don't have a life. I'd be willing to compare you life with mine. I've been getting a pay check twice a month since I was 17. Never been on welfare or unemployment. I've known a lot of people ''getting into their 30's'' that can't say the same.  I'm 43 now and i'll be retiring quiet comfotably in 10 yrs or less, what else should a person want?

If you're not ''impress'' with this system or this is not to your standard, you've made the best decision of your life. The military is not for everyone. It's not for the one that wants a life base on the same daily routine over and over. We have people like this at this time in the trade and when the time comes for them to deploy or get posted, which is part of their jobs, they always find a way to get out of it. Wich means, somebody else has to do their jobs for them.

Good luck to you.

Cheers....
 
buddyhfx said:
I think you were mislead at the recruiting center. But like you said, I don't know, I've only been in the trade for 17 yrs and every year I see new faces joining up, either OT's or direct entries and most of them don't have any FF background including firefighting education. If everybody needed a degree, their wouldn't be a need for our fire academy.

There's a difference between job experience and life experience and life experience is what I was reffering to. To do your job while travelling in different part of the world and getting paid for doing this, to me, this is a part of getting life experience. I had a kid on my crew the other day telling me that he was getting frustrated because he hasn't seen any dead bodies yet. I told him that the first priority of a firefighter is to try to not see dead bodies and that maybe the reason for this was probably because we were doing a good job as far as prevention is concern, which is a bis aspect of our job. Maybe he's not ready to see dead bodies and he doesn't know that yet. For me, I've seen enough on deployments, that I don't wanna see one corpse anymore.

You seem to think that we all live in a trailer and that we don't have a life. I'd be willing to compare you life with mine. I've been getting a pay check twice a month since I was 17. Never been on welfare or unemployment. I've known a lot of people ''getting into their 30's'' that can't say the same.  I'm 43 now and i'll be retiring quiet comfotably in 10 yrs or less, what else should a person want?

If you're not ''impress'' with this system or this is not to your standard, you've made the best decision of your life. The military is not for everyone. It's not for the one that wants a life base on the same daily routine over and over. We have people like this at this time in the trade and when the time comes for them to deploy or get posted, which is part of their jobs, they always find a way to get out of it. Wich means, somebody else has to do their jobs for them.

Good luck to you.

Cheers....

Those kids are everywhere. I had the enormous benefit of starting as a volunteer and gaining experience and instruction from a former Dartmouth District Chief. He taught me more about how to do the job than anyone, any book or video ever could.

I had to deal with a nasty experience last winter. We had been called to a rig that had blew out in Northeastern BC. Simple logistics said that we wouldn't arrive on scene for at least 12 hours. When we did arrive we found out that three guys didn't make it off the rig. We were staying in the same camp that these guys had and I found it very tough to be in the same building as some of the people (Camp cooks and attendants, other rig crews) that had worked with these guys. Early into the project I overheard two of my guys talking about the simple devastation of the rig itself, how hot the fire got, the amount of stones and small boulders that the well blew out, etc. The thing was that they were talking about this in the smokers shack while some of these other camp tenants were.

I chalked it up to my guys being relatively new, first big project and excitement. But to see the faces of the other people as they discussed this had a tremendous effect on my as a person and as a professional. I took the guys aside and had a word with them about it and cut that talk off right there. No gallows humour as long as others are near, no talk about the job unless asked and even when asked be very vague. Too often the young guys just get horny, for lack of better term, and get all wound up in the Kurt Russell syndrome. Luckily for me, when I started as a volunteer, I had men like that former D/C to reign me in before I got started! I carried that into my paid work.

buddy, I have had the same sorts of "kids" around me before and I can say, from first hand experience, that they usually aren't as prepared as they might like to think they are to see that body. It usually ends up with someone puking or with a CIS Intervention at some point. What goes along with the seeming desire for carnage (from the young fells) is the attitude that "It can't affect me" or "What will the guys think if I am a bit messed up over this?" What follows is a rapid downward spiral and, alot of times, those guys leave never to return.

It's a funny job we have. Waiting for someone elses day to turn to complete ratsh*t. How do you test yourself? Training? Well, yeah, training accomplishes some of it. But most guys yearn for that true test - the full blown structure fire, the one you have to fight from your belly, near flashover conditions, spongy floors, steam burns, soot an hot, hot, hot. I liken a firefighters job to playing highschool sports (Bear with me) Imagine what it would be like always practicing for that basketball game but never getting to play. Think of it that way and you may understand why the young guys get "horny".

I feel for the young guys having been one not so long ago. Having to listen to the war storied and some of the more ignorant members telling them that they "don't measure up" I went through that with some but also had that wise old D/C right there telling me to ignore them. It's hard being new and wanting your shot. You've had all the training and want to put it to that test. You want to sit at that table with the old guys swapping war stories, you want to graduate from "Johnny the Probie" to a role of mentoring the new Johnnies and telling them your war stories. I am sure we have all felt that at one time or another.

When I teach (I am now a Captain of the training division in my Vollie Dept) I teach by telling the guys how I screwed up, not telling them how many puppies I had saved. Take that, FWIW. I just find the guys have an easier time relating to me because I am not up there beating my chest, I am showing humility, something that can be very important in the fire service.

I likehelping people who feel that they have no one else to rely on. That is why we are called, right? And I love it so much that I would do it for nothing. In fact, I do fight fire for nothing as a volunteer, but I also have the paid service that I am in. But, truth be told, I don't need millions, I just want to be comfortable. I am just as happy being able to pay the bills as I am having all the extras to be quite honest. I am happy to be back home with family and not on the road at least 250 days a year. The bottom line is that I fell in love with the job and everything, or almost everything, that comes with it. There are times that suck but the joyous and enjoyable moments far outweigh the bad.

Here's my free advice: You want to try for big bucks? Go west young man, go west. Get on with an oilfield outfit and you will have your shot at money and glory. But be wary. It ain't easy. Turnover is at less than two years now because guys either burn out or can't hack the pace. You are paid fantastically for your work but earn every penny (Not saying others don't) I lasted over four years in the field ops side before jumping to management/supervisory roles and I only did that because I have a very patient wife, I can drink alot of coffee without having to pee, I can drive long distances in big fire trucks without smashing them, can stand having crude oil all over everything for 16 hours a day, and so on.

They say pictures are worth 1000 words? Well go here: www.safetyboss.com I got my start with these guys before they merged with another, larger company. Take a look at some of the pics.

I hope some of this helps. I'd be foolish to compare my job to anyone elses in the fire service and won't even try to. Each job has its own unique challenges, rewards, maddening things, thuds, etc. It's up to you to find out which is going to suit you. I caution anyone reading this though: Firefighting is not a hero's job. We are ordinary people who have chosen, by time, to put ourselves into extraordinary situations. Some do it for love, some for money, some for both. It's a job, just like driving a schoolbus or being a mechanic or nursing. They all have challenges.

I'm done and feeling quite winded.



 
think you were mislead at the recruiting center.  want to explain that?   The fact remains that if an applicant doesn't have the extra qualifications and/or education and/or experience already then they are not going to get processed.  Processing resources are extremely valuable and recruiting is not going to waste them on some kid just out of high school who has wanted to be a FF since he was two.  Apologize if I misunderstood but I am quite protective some times.
 
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