All Things CF Firefighter (merged)

[malibu]

So, from what I've read on this site and heard from others, it seems pretty hard for someone to get into the firefighter trade right off the street. Am I correct in this assumption?
Thanks

 

[PViddy]

I wouldn't say that.  Maybe i can pose a clarrifying question to the guys nomex or anyone that knows a thing or to about recruiting.  Are their any percentages or ratios that says they have to take so many trade tranfers vs. people off the street kind of thing ?

cheers

PV

 

[kincanucks]

The annual intake for each military occupation is developed through a Strategic Intake Plan (SIP).  This SIP is developed in coordination with the Managing Authority of each occupation and it is decided how many in-service (OTs) and how many out-service applicants (unskilled/RSBP) are required to meet the SIP.  For some trades, where military service would be more beneficial, the in-service requirement would be higher than the out-service requirement.  While I can't recall the in-service requirement for FF I do remember that the out-service requirement was around 25 total.  FF will always be a very competitive and popular trade and the out-service requirement will always fill very fast.  It is so competitive that if someone makes it through with absolutely no related experience or education, then they are either very lucky or someone exaggerated their interview score.

 

[PViddy]

Thanks Canuck,

that question was pretty much generated towards you, and sure enough an answer appears  .  Now just for a quick follow-up (and ya, this really should be in the recruiting forum) What would a reservist or in my case, a CIC Officer fall under ? in or out service ? I think i know the answer, but assumption is no substitute for expertise!  thanks again.

cheers

PV

 

[kincanucks]

Out service.

 

[Heatwave]

Great input kincanuck, as I really couldn't comment with any accuracy on that one.  Now if only you knew how to pick a hockey team ;D(as he says under his breath, Go Leafs Go - Realizing he's never seen them win the cup since he's been alive). 

Malibu, Don't ever give up.  I am a Direct Entry to the Fire Fighter trade, which was an anomoly even more so back in the 80's, when I joined.  I'm not saying I was inexperienced, as being a Reservist for a couple years surely helped.  All I'm saying is that you can't get anywhere if you've already defeated yourself.  Much like lotto 6/49, I suppose, you have to play to win.

Chimo!

 

[PViddy]

  I think that most of the halls now all work the same shift which is: 4 days starting on a Monday, 6 days off, 4 nights, 4 days off, 3 days, 3 nights, 4 days off and than we start all over again. 1 day = 9 hrs and 1 night = 15 hrs. It's a pretty good shift once you get use to it and the good thing about this rotation is that you're garanteed 2 week-ends off per month.

Cheers..

So i was thinking about this.  6 days off? are you on call at any of these times (days off), or are you free to head off base ? Also, regarding BMQ is that trade and element specific ? or is everyone pressed together?

thanks gents.

cheers

PV

 

[buddyhfx]

During our days off, we are free to go as we please. We are still subject to recall if something major does happen on base and the on duty crew is overwhelm by the magnitude of the incident.
Also, once in a while we may have to attend any kind of training that is scheduled on specific dates. If those dates happen to be on our days off, we come in and log the time as ''earned time off''. Now, I don't know about your guys in your hall, Heatwave, but in our end, we're having a hard time taking our ETO'S due to the lack of trained personels. Altough, we're getting 8 new guys fresh off their 3's this month, it will not fix our problem since we'll probably lose 6 to 8 people this APS that are due for ships. It takes anywhere between 6 to 9 months to train the new guys to the driver level and then they have to go on their 5's course. So this next year, we'll probably hand up with 2 maybe 3 drivers per crews again.
As far as BMQ, PV, I could'nt really answer that question as i'm not that familiar with that process anymore, I'll leave that one to someone else....

Cheers...

 

[PViddy]

So generally,

Is the CF Fire Service at it's quota or is looking for a lot more people, or is it just lack of trained pers ?


cheers

PV

 

[Heatwave]

In a nutshell.....Yes!  We need people and experience.  We've had a couple tough years (high attrition), and are expecting another one next year.  Regardless of what is said, we must be under quota because most Firehalls don't even have their minimum entitlement of personnel.  On top of that, we are lacking a lot of experience.  This is due, in no part, to the Fire Academy, as they are working their tails off just to get personnel trained.  However, as with most jobs, it takes many years of training and experience to have a highly qualified Firefighter. 
When it comes to ETO's, it is the same here.  There are so many "must-attend" courses and lectures that the guys keep piling up the ETO's, yet can seldom benefit from them due to manning shortages and leave requirements.  We're getting 4 new bodies from their 3's, and that'll leave us with the same problems as Buddy is dealing with.  t'll be quite some time before we come full circle on this one. 
In regards to the BMQ, it is not trade specific.  We are all bunched together...as we were many years ago.

 

[PViddy]

During our days off, we are free to go as we please. We are still subject to recall if something major does happen on base and the on duty crew is overwhelm by the magnitude of the incident.

Sounds like a pretty good deal, so with 6 days off if i was posted in Ontario, i could jet home ? or is that classified as leave ? if a recall did happen, does anyone wear pagers ? What is training at Borden (CFFA) like ?

cheers

PV

 

[Heatwave]

Essentially, you could jet home.  You would have to fill out a locator book and indicate that you would be out of the area.  This is usually done on a leave pass, and is marked as "Natural Days Off, or NDO vice having to take Annual Leave.  Usually, you have to advise whenever you go outside of a 50km radius.  It just depends on what your Dept. procedures are.  Don't forget that you are not "untouchable" during your days off.  If there are any mandatory courses (which are happening more and more), the only chance you may have to attend is during your days off.  We mentioned this earlier, so I won't go much further into it.  Essentially, we don't like it, but it's a reality. 
If a recall occurs, it is done by phone, as we don't carry pagers.  It's been discussed many times, but I don't believe we'll head that way....."it's a cost thing" is the only excuse I've received.
If you don't mind, could you ask a more concise question(s) about training at CFFA?  Simply because I could go on for hours, but I want to ensure we (meaning myself and others that may answer this) are able provide the info you require.  Thanks

Chimo!

 

[PViddy]

Yes, my appologies, it is a bit of a broad topic isn't ? here goes:

1.  How long is the 404 or Driver course or whatever you call itt for FF's
2.  How long do you train at CFFA ? a bit more relaxed than BMQ or not ? weekends off ?
3.  Is their a seperate course for pump operator that you take later on in training, since that is usually a specialty position ?
4.  How big is the CF on auto ex. ?
5.  Is their a HAZMAT reponse team on each base ? or this done by another trade.

Thanks for your answers and patience gentleman, i am not a total noob to the Fire Service, just interested to see what i have learned so far and how it applies to the CF.

cheers

PV

 

[buddyhfx]

1. The basic driver's training (BDT) is 2 weeks.

2. The apprentice FF course is 16 weeks as I recall, it is more relax the BMQ but lots of hard work and remenber, this is done on a training base so you can get your own conclusion from that.

3. Although you do not drive the pumper, pump operations is covered on your 3's. Once you get to your unit, training on driving/operating will continue untill qualified on your OJT 4 package and at your supervisor's discretion you get on the rotation as a pumper operator. Mind you this could take a little while as you and your supervisor must be comfortable with the level of your knowledge also you have to be very familiar with the base Ei: Buildings location, street names an so on. Pumper operator is not qualified as a specialty like the big city FD. Every shift we try to rotate everyone that is qualified, mainly Pte's & Cpl's and sometime Mcpl's depending on the manning.

4. Auto extrication depends on the location of your unit. I remember my first posting at my current location 10 yrs ago, we averaged 3 calls on month on auto ex due to the fact that we covered all the rural area on a 50 Km perimeter. Now , since the fusion of the 3 major cities in our area, i think we had 4 calls in the last year.

5. The HazMat response team on most bases is the reponsability of the FD (correct me if I'm wrong Heatwave). On our base, we are the hazMat response team. On the 3's course, HazMat awarness is covered and then on your 5's yo do a 2 weeks course to become an HazMat technicien and then at a supervisor's level you take the course to become an On scene HazMat commander.

Here, hopefully this answers some of your questions. I know Heatwave will probably add some more details. That's not his fault, he's just that way...... ;D. He's a little bit on the nerd side..........oooppss, did I just say that.. :-X

Cheers ....

 

[Heatwave]

I know Heatwave will probably add some more details. That's not his fault, he's just that way...... ;D. He's a little bit on the nerd side..........oooppss, did I just say that..

I believe the correct terminology is "Geek."  And I was going to say nothing, but seems how you opened the door for me, what the hey?

You do get the weekends off at CFFA, but the new training procedures definitely keeps many students busy studying.  Ultimately, the testing that is being implemented at the Academy is ensuring that we receive a better Firefighter at the Halls.  It is not your typical "cram and dump" type of process.  It now comes with many quizzes, and less exams.  This allows everyone to know what parts have to be focused on to improve the student's knowledge.  And the student retains what they have learned. 

Myself, I was on an Auto Extrication competition team, so the possibility exists to "specialize."  However, as much as I enjoyed it, I would keep my options open.  We already have a rather large Scope of Training, so you want to ensure that you keep up on all fields.  Auto Ex is just as important as Hazmat, Confined Space Rescue, etc, etc.

Buddy was also correct on the Hazmat.  Our Wing does have the advantage of the Airfield Engineering Flight (AEF) that will also be called out by us during major Hazmat incidents.  They have received training at the Tech level and their Commander is Hazmat I/C qualified.  They keep the Hazmat Trailor, as we haven't the space for it a the Hall.  It is nice having some extra bodies to help out, as well. 

That's all for now.  Thanks for answering most of this Buddy, as we're dealing with the CM visit. :crybaby:  Crying towels at the ready. 
Chimo!

 

[PViddy]

Cool, thanks guys.  At what point do you receive your trade badge ? is it after the basic FF training or not until like 5 years down the road when you are fully trained ? Does the CF put teams in for the FF combat challenge ?

cheers

PV

 

[Heatwave]

We normally receive our trade badge as you begin your 3's course.  I realize this isn't what other units consider the "norm" but for us it aids in the sense of belonging to the Fire Service.  As well as it identifies you when you screw up elsewhere on base :-[  So they know exactly where to go to in order to pass that info along......good with the bad, I guess.  Just don't screw up and be proud of what you represent.
We do, indeed put teams in for the FF Combat Challenge.  Some bases have a team of their own that competes locally (regional, then provincial).  As well, we have the Canadian Forces Fire Marshall (CFFM) Team which is made up of some of the top performers throughout the CF.  As we are military and operational, it is sometimes difficult to get the same representatives.  Someone could be sailing or be overseas during the competition.  Operations take priority, so it's just the chance we have to take in belonging to such a team.
Chimo!

 

[PViddy]

Hey guys

This is great, thanks again.  if you any questions about the CIC, ask away! haha  ;D  :.  Do any of you guys have an electronic sourse of what topics are covered in your QL(?) courses ? like a course break down sort of deal.

thanks

PV

 

[PViddy]

Also,

Just thinking of this at work.  Do FF's ever get specialist pay ?


thanks

PV

 

[kincanucks]

Standard pay Pte to CWO so no.