Aerospace Control Officers-AEC [merged]

[LuvsMud]

What happens to those who don't meet the cut-off? Will they be re-coursed? Will this test happen before or after the OJT/DL phase? Obviously, candidates would rather know whether or not they were continuing on to CFSACO earlier rather than later.

This has also been a nagging question to which I have not found a clear answer. Since the failure rate for AECs is so high... What happens to the candidates who don't make the cut? Can they select another trade either (CO or NCM) or do they have to restart the whole application process? Are they still on the payroll while in "limbo"? Not to sound greedy here but we all have financial responsibilities.

 

[Aerospaced_out]

If things go the way they are heading with selection testing this is how it will play out...

You enter the CFRC. You make some career choices. If any of them happen to be Air Ops (PLT, NAV, AEC) then you will be sent for selection testing. Once tested you will be apprised of the results and what they would mean for success in any of the options (even if you had originally only selected one of them). If you are below the cut-off for any of the options...well, it won't be an option for you anymore. If you are below the cut-off for all the options then you will have to select something new or look on civvy street fora career. It is not clear yet whether the "new" will be done at the selection centre or back at the CFRC Det. For new recruits this selection process would occur before you are signed up... i.e. you are not being paid.

This is a fairly simplistic model of how things are planned to play out. Most important... this is NOT how things are now. Currently each of the options has certain selection requirements unique to it. However, selection testing of any kind is now and likely will always be done before joining the CF. I am not certain how this business of ROTP candidates being funnelled into Air Ops for first year is impacting the selection testing process. I'll get an answer though.

 

[Aerospaced_out]

Just remember that's a posting that most AECs like the idea of.

About 60% of AECs have an ATC only background and few of them care about AWACS at all. Amongst the AWC folks though AWACS, and GK in particular, is the ultimate.

 

[LuvsMud]

Thank you for the clarification. I'm actually in the process of joining. Any idea when they plan on implementing the new selection process? In regards to my previous post, I was thinking farther down the line once you are already in the forces (quit your civy job), have completed BMOQ but fail the actual AEC courses. I'd love to be the gung-ho type that can throw all caution to the wind but not everyone can afford to do so. 

 

[Aerospaced_out]

Once you are in the CF then failure of one crse will not put you back on the street. I know of a few folks that failed PLT, NAV then AEC yet still ended up being fine officers in other disciplines. What options are actually open to you if you were to fail would be dependent on previous selection testing, the assessment from the school where you failed, as well as the PSO interview you will do once back at your home unit. Recruitment priorities will also factor heavily in what options are made vailable. In recent times failed AECs typically get offered INF, ARMD or MARS although I have seen many get PAFF, HCA and INT.

 

[Aerospaced_out]

Sorry about the colours. See attached document.

Current AEC Recruitment and Training Process

Recruitment:
• Selection test is done at the CFRC (AEC requires overall CFAT score at or above the 60th percentile; this compares to 38th percentile for GSO/PLT)
• Meet other criteria (medical, interview, etc) and accept offer.
Training:

Process - DEO/CEOTP/OT/CFR
1. IAP (8 weeks)
2. BOTP (7 weeks)
3. SLT if English profile below CBB (up to 33 Weeks)
4. OJE (6 week average but sometimes up to 16 Weeks):
 Requirement to take annual leave during this time
 Stream selection done
5. Core via D/L (7 weeks)
6. CFSACO:
 IFR – (18 weeks)
 WPNS – (13 weeks)
 VFR – (10 weeks)
7. Qualification time highly dependent on location and final employment:
 IFR – (6-9 months)
 WPNS – all to 51 Sqn OTU (3-4 months) then to operational employment
 VFR – (4-6 months)

Process - RMC
1. IAP done during the summer between 1st and 2nd year
2. BOTP done during the summer between 2nd and 3rd year
3. SLT incorporated into RMC curriculum
4. OJE done during the summer between 3rd and 4th year:
 Requirement to take annual leave during this time
 Stream selection done
5. Post Grad OJE including Core via D/L (10 weeks)
6. CFSACO:
 IFR – (18 weeks)
 WPNS – (13 weeks)
 VFR – (10 weeks)
7. Qualification time highly dependent on employment location:
 IFR – (6-9 months)
 WPNS – all to 51 Sqn OTU (3-4 months) then to operational employment
 VFR – (4-6 months)

Process – Civ University
1. IAP done during the summer between 1st and 2nd year
2. BOTP done during the summer between 2nd and 3rd year
3. SLT, if required to obtain English CBB, done during the summer between 3rd and 4th year, otherwise on to OJE
4. OJE done during the summer between 3rd and 4th year:
 Requirement to take annual leave during this time
 Stream selection done
5. Post Grad OJE including Core via D/L (10 weeks)
6. CFSACO:
 IFR – (18 weeks)
 WPNS – (13 weeks)
 VFR – (10 weeks)
7. Qualification time highly dependent on employment location:
 IFR – (6-9 months)
 WPNS – all to 51 Sqn OTU (3-4 months) then to operational employment
 VFR – (4-6 months)

Yellow – St Jean, QC
Blue – normally at an operational wing
Green – Cornwall, ON

Operational Employment Options (First Tour)

1. ATC

• Comox
  Cold Lake
  Moose Jaw
  Trenton
  Bagotville (requires BBB French Profile)
  Greenwood
  Shearwater (VFR only - unlikely as a first tour)

2. WPNS  - first 51 Sqn OTU at North Bay then:

• North Bay with 21 Sqn
  42 Rdr Cold Lake
  12 er Bagotville
  AWACS Tinker OK
  Air Defence Sectors in McCord, WA or Rome, NY

 

[Celticgirl]

Terrific post, Aerospaced_out! Lots of great info there.

I had thought, however, that IAP was 9 weeks and BOTP was 6? You have them as 8 and 7, respectively.

I'm also wondering why Shearwater is "unlikely" for a first tour?

 

[Aerospaced_out]

Me too, but I had AF AEC Tng confirm those timings specifically, as it is not my bailiwick. The differences might be in how people are accounting for wait times between crses. Either way it is 15 weeks of tng

Along this same line... I could have made the table much more complicated in trying to account for every little bit of wait time but thought it would just add confusion but no real clarity.

I think what I will do is edit out the posted info and allow the attached document to stand on its own. However instead of attaching it I will provide a link so that the most up to date version will be available.

 

[Celticgirl]

Me too, but I had AF AEC Tng confirm those timings specifically, as it is not my bailiwick. The differences might be in how people are accounting for wait times between crses. Either way it is 15 weeks of tng

Along this same line... I could have made the table much more complicated in trying to account for every little bit of wait time but thought it would just add confusion but no real clarity.

I think what I will do is edit out the posted info and allow the attached document to stand on its own. However instead of attaching it I will provide a link so that the most up to date version will be available.

On your pdf, it says IAP is 10 weeks and BOTP is 7 weeks.  ;D

In any case, going by the dates I received from the CFRC staff, BMOQ is 15 weeks in total.

You still didn't answer my Shearwater question, though.

 

[Aerospaced_out]

My PDF? To what are you referring?

As to YAW... its a function of traffic levels. Quite frankly, Shearwater doesn't have enough traffic to challenge a new controller and this is not a good environment for developing skills and professional excellence. In the past it would not have been considered at all for this very reason. However, due to the increased production output at CFSACO it might become necessary to send an occasional grad to YAW so that they aren't being inordinately delayed in getting qualified. The decision would be taken only after consultation with the AEC CM, CFSACO and the individual under consideration.

This rationale is very similar as to why we are sending more new WPNS controllers directly to OUTCAN positions... they get more operational experience (read: live missions)at the beginning of their career.

 

[Celticgirl]

My PDF? To what are you referring?

Sorry, not PDF. The document attached to your OP.

As to YAW... its a function of traffic levels. Quite frankly, Shearwater doesn't have enough traffic to challenge a new controller and this is not a good environment for developing skills and professional excellence. In the past it would not have been considered at all for this very reason. However, due to the increased production output at CFSACO it might become necessary to send an occasional grad to YAW so that they aren't being inordinately delayed in getting qualified. The decision would be taken only after consultation with the AEC CM, CFSACO and the individual under consideration.

This rationale is very similar as to why we are sending more new WPNS controllers directly to OUTCAN positions... they get more operational experience (read: live missions)at the beginning of their career.

Seen. I am still holding out hope for either Greenwood or Shearwater for a first posting, even though the chances may be slim. That is, if I even get VFR, which is not guaranteed, either.

 

[Aerospaced_out]

When I originally uploaded it must has used the cached first draft. I have now up-loaded the final draft. It should be showing 8 and 7 weeks as per the info in the OP. I'll check when I get home later this eve as .doc don't make it through the corporate firewall.

Good luck getting your choice of discipline. As to YAW... well our first ab initio is down there now. If it works out for him it might open the door for more. If you were new to the military I would counsel against heading to your "favorite" posting as a first tour. Usually leads to major disappointment when later in your career you can't get back "home" because you have already been there. I've seen too many people make the wrong choice on placement for their first posting. Personally I never understood the mentality of folks that join the military then turn around and fight to get a posting back to where they came from. Too each his or her own I guess...

 

[Neilio]

We've been told no more YAW on first posting, not that I care because I'm IFR, but fyi

 

[Celticgirl]

Personally I never understood the mentality of folks that join the military then turn around and fight to get a posting back to where they came from. Too each his or her own I guess...

I wouldn't care if it were just for myself, but my fiance and our kids (3 between us) are in the Maritimes, so that makes the difference in my case.

 

[LuvsMud]

Thank you! I was worried I'd be sitting on the curb by the front gate wondering "what now?"  :crybaby: All the recruiter said when I asked was "Ah don't worry about it you'll be fine". Mind you it was 4pm on a Friday. But we're good to go! :warstory: I might be joining you in St-Jean this January Celticgirl, heck we might even be roomates.  ;D

 

[Celticgirl]

I might be joining you in St-Jean this January Celticgirl, heck we might even be roomates.  ;D

The clerk I spoke with today told me I'd be getting my own room at the Mega, LM! With a door, no less.  ;D  LOL  How far along in the process are you?

 

[LuvsMud]

I have to go back to do the aircrew portion of the medical since the original trade I chose didn't require it. Everything else is complete and the interviewer gave me the green light as far as security clearance, background, references, interview and all that but reminded me there is only one position available and possibly more candidates. Does this mean I'm merit listed? I don't know. But he said I *MIGHT* be going to St-Jean this January. So exciting! I can't wait to be issued the superhero cape and secret decoder ring.  ;D

 

[LuvsMud]

Great info! I was hoping to go to Greenwood as my first posting as well but I'm really interested in the air weapons side of things. Anywhere works for me as long as the fishing is good. How long are AECs usually stationed?

 

[Neilio]

Depends on a lot of factors, but typically a Lt/Capt posting is 3-5 yrs.  Greenwood isn't a good first posting, so slow, it will take your first tour to checkout.  Go somewhere busy on your first tour.

 

[Neilio]

Yeah they definitly are above ground, but still somewhat dark.