2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[Fishbone Jones]

That argument is exactly why voters are leery of the abortion and gay marriage issue. Even though the CPC says it’s behind them, they have to shake that off given their past position.

The Liberals will have to do the same on carbon tax.

I haven't heard anyone even remotely discussing abortion or gay marriage. Canadians want relief in their pockets and a stable, job rich existence. Most of the world, at this point, is fed up with hearing about social engineering and PP has made his party's policy on those issues clear. Given his lead, I would guess most Canadians are OK with it and don't need convincing. YMMV.

 

[PuckChaser]

That argument is exactly why voters are leery of the abortion and gay marriage issue. Even though the CPC says it’s behind them, they have to shake that off given their past position.

You mean like 8 years the CPC had with a majority having not touched the issue? It's a red herring brought out by Liberals to justify their partisanship.

The Carbon tax, meanwhile, has been doubled down on every year by every Liberal leadership candidate. Unless the suggestion is they were blind followers to happily keep their jobs while enacting a clearly bad policy and didn't have the integrity to stand up for their beliefs?

 

[Remius]

I haven't heard anyone even remotely discussing abortion or gay marriage. Canadians want relief in their pockets and a stable, job rich existence. Most of the world, at this point, is fed up with hearing about social engineering and PP has made his party's policy on those issues clear. Given his lead, I would guess most Canadians are OK with it and don't need convincing. YMMV.

It will be brought up to be sure. The CPC still has that stain. PPs latest gender comments will certainly be pushed as evidence of identity politics still well at work.

My point is that I understand why people might not believe that a carbon tax is off the table. Anymore than why some just don’t believe the CPC has reigned in its social conservative tendencies.

 

[QV]

It will be brought up to be sure. The CPC still has that stain. PPs latest gender comments will certainly be pushed as evidence of identity politics still well at work.

My point is that I understand why people might not believe that a carbon tax is off the table. Anymore than why some just don’t believe the CPC has reigned in its social conservative tendencies.

The main difference being one example has evidence the other does not.

 

[Remius]

The main difference being one example has evidence the other does not.

I just provided you with just one example about gender. That is likely enough to move a few votes away in that regard.

Leslyn Lewis for example hasn’t just disappeared either…

Like I said. Both sides have stains to remove to convince the elctorate. My point is the reasons you don’t believe the LPC’s carbon stance is pretty much on par with the reasons some don’t believe the CPC on social issues.

We’ll see if the CPC Canada First Campaign being launched will dissuade that or convince Canadians that it isn’t the same as Trump’s America First.

KINSELLA: Trump anchor dragging down Poilievre’s Conservatives fast

If Canadian voters continue to believe that Poilievre is a slightly-altered holographic projection of the president, he’s done like dinner.

torontosun.com

 

[IKnowNothing]

Well, if PP shouldn't be PM, who should?

Your choices are Carney, Singh and May.

Who do you trust more to do right by you?



So tell us what's been solved and who you consider the best for a PM.

I'll re-use this
"The discussion was about CPC messaging, the recent shift to include actual detailed policy planks- and why they may or may not be getting credit for those with the electorate."

You can circle wagons around PP, or- calm down and discuss what maybe/ is likely contributing to Canadians defying your wishes. Clearly the wave of support the CPC was riding on was a mile wide and an inch deep. If the leader gets credit for the mile he's also accountable for the inch. The first step to getting the support back is understand why it left so easily.


As to your question.
I'd still poll CPC at this point, but it is no longer the slam dunk it was. I don't love Carney's connection to Telford and Butts, but I'll hear him out. He'll have to be a lot more pragmatic rather than ideological on the energy front to win me over. I don't buy that he's Trudeau in an older skin- Trudeau isn't/wasn't 10% as intelligent and accomplished.

 

[PuckChaser]

I just provided you with just one example about gender. That is likely enough to move a few votes away in that regard.

Leslyn Lewis for example hasn’t just disappeared either…

Like I said. Both sides have stains to remove to convince the elctorate. My point is the reasons you don’t believe the LPC’s carbon stance is pretty much on par with the reasons some don’t believe the CPC on social issues.

We’ll see if the CPC Canada First Campaign being launched will dissuade that or convince Canadians that it isn’t the same as Trump’s America First.

KINSELLA: Trump anchor dragging down Poilievre’s Conservatives fast

If Canadian voters continue to believe that Poilievre is a slightly-altered holographic projection of the president, he’s done like dinner.

torontosun.com

So you suggest we fight an America First policy with policy that does not put Canada's interests first? Its actually pretty clever to steal the US term for a policy to decouple us from US trade dependance. Have you even read anything PP has put out as part of Canada First? It's about as far away from the isolationist/protectionist economic policy existing south of the border as you can get.

PP is Trump is a Liberal slogan/smear campaign not based in reality but really drums up support from their diehard base.

 

[Remius]

So you suggest we fight an America First policy with policy that does not put Canada's interests first?

I said nothing of the sort.

It’s actually pretty clever to steal the US term for a policy to decouple us from US trade dependance. Have you even read anything PP has put out as part of Canada First? It's about as far away from the isolationist/protectionist economic policy existing south of the border as you can get.

I have. And I like what I hear. But there is a big reset coming on Feb 15th. I’ll be watching that as well. Hence my question on whether it will dissuade or confirm.

PP is Trump is a Liberal slogan/smear campaign not based in reality but really drums up support from their diehard base.

Of course. But people are still making the link. And it seems that the polling is showing that it isn’t quite the die hard base that is bleeding from the CPC at this moment. Not saying it’s the Trump link per se but this Trump seems to be looming large in this contest now.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I just provided you with just one example about gender. That is likely enough to move a few votes away in that regard.

Leslyn Lewis for example hasn’t just disappeared either…

Like I said. Both sides have stains to remove to convince the elctorate. My point is the reasons you don’t believe the LPC’s carbon stance is pretty much on par with the reasons some don’t believe the CPC on social issues.

We’ll see if the CPC Canada First Campaign being launched will dissuade that or convince Canadians that it isn’t the same as Trump’s America First.

KINSELLA: Trump anchor dragging down Poilievre’s Conservatives fast

If Canadian voters continue to believe that Poilievre is a slightly-altered holographic projection of the president, he’s done like dinner.

torontosun.com

The problem is one is a social issue based on emotion. The liberal stance steals huge amounts of money out of our pockets. If I need to rate issues on a scale, the ones that rob me of my money are the ones at the top. People's ideas about their sex and how they are treated are much further down that list. Matter of fact, because I don't care about such things, they are likely not on my list at all. They don't affect me or my daily existence. Steal my money, that's another story.

 

[ArmyRick]

Bottom line from the Conservatives Never crowd is you still can not explain HOW we build the economy (and as I have pointed out many times, many of you chronic anti-conservatives are government employees)

I said a few a few post ago and none of you are touching it.

Pierre said months ago and again now, we unleash
-Oil and Gas
-Liquid Natural Gas
-Pipelines
-Forestry
-Agriculture
-Oil refinery
-Remove provincial trade barriers (he said it 4 days before the LPC did)
-Build homes removing HST for first time home buyers
-Incentive early home building
-Liquidate excess crown property like CBC buildings

Its a long lengthy list of REAL ideas that grow the economy. And he will attack crime harshly (not the feel good, gentle justice of the LPC), stop the failed safe supply horseshit and harm reduction (we need rehab not enabling addiction), do something both short term and long term for the border, yet another long, long list of real ideas.

WTF does Mark Carney have? Carbon tax? ohhh but only for corporations and they won't pass the expenses on to you (LOL, thats a good one) and a Carbon trade tariff? WTF? This guy will make Canadians hate the LPC more than Justin did. That little blip in some of the polls, will NOT save the LPC.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

(He said it 4 days before the LPC did)

They been pretty handy this time around of lifting PP's ideas and claiming them as their own. The difference being, unlike Pierre, they have no intention of carrying out those promises.

They are using the trade kerfuffle to dodge the electorate and tell us what their selling points are. The less commitments they make, the more they can bend us over after the election. And they will.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I'll re-use this
"The discussion was about CPC messaging, the recent shift to include actual detailed policy planks- and why they may or may not be getting credit for those with the electorate."

You can circle wagons around PP, or- calm down and discuss what maybe/ is likely contributing to Canadians defying your wishes. Clearly the wave of support the CPC was riding on was a mile wide and an inch deep. If the leader gets credit for the mile he's also accountable for the inch. The first step to getting the support back is understand why it left so easily.


As to your question.
I'd still poll CPC at this point, but it is no longer the slam dunk it was. I don't love Carney's connection to Telford and Butts, but I'll hear him out. He'll have to be a lot more pragmatic rather than ideological on the energy front to win me over. I don't buy that he's Trudeau in an older skin- Trudeau isn't/wasn't 10% as intelligent and accomplished.

Are you interested in some real estate?

 

[IKnowNothing]

Are you interested in some real estate?

If you truly think Carney is a threat to the nation you better hope CPC HQ is more capable with uncomfortable thoughts and discussions than you are

 

[QV]

How could you not believe a continuation of the climate action against industry is not a threat to our nations’s economic survival?

 

[Good2Golf]

Pierre said months ago and again now, we unleash
-Oil and Gas
-Liquid Natural Gas
-Pipelines
-Forestry
-Agriculture
-Oil refinery
-Remove provincial trade barriers (he said it 4 days before the LPC did)
-Build homes removing HST for first time home buyers
-Incentive early home building
-Liquidate excess crown property like CBC buildings

He’s been fairly clear on this for a while. Not sure why some are saying he needs to actually say something. It seems no body is stress testing Carrey and Freeland’s statements so easily made about cutting the carbon tax.

I'd still poll CPC at this point, but it is no longer the slam dunk it was. I don't love Carney's connection to Telford and Butts, but I'll hear him out. He'll have to be a lot more pragmatic rather than ideological on the energy front to win me over. I don't buy that he's Trudeau in an older skin- Trudeau isn't/wasn't 10% as intelligent and accomplished.

WTF does Mark Carney have? Carbon tax? ohhh but only for corporations and they won't pass the expenses on to you (LOL, thats a good one) and a Carbon trade tariff?

Carney need to be clear about where he stands on resources, increasing Canadian productivity, and GoC revenues and expenses and how a rebalance will be achieved. He’s a financial guy and the solution to Canada’s woes has a significant financial aspect to it, and I hear nothing comforting about how he (or Freeland or the others TBH) will source the increase in defence and security.

I would also like to hear him explicitly address his position on China…

Chinese president Xi Jinping meets with former Bank of Canada governor Mark Carney

Former Bank of Canada governor Mark Carney met with Chinese President Xi Jinping to address trade between China and North America on Wednesday.

tnc.news

 

[IKnowNothing]

How could you not believe a continuation of the climate action against industry is not a threat to our nations’s economic survival?