‘White nationalism’ a threat the Canadian Armed Forces aren’t equipped for: watchdog

[mariomike]

You're contributions to this thread and others are valuable.

Are there racist idiots out there? Yes there is.

Yes there are, judging by the discussions,

Widespread systemic racism in Canadian military ‘repulsing’ new recruits: report

New report released about racism is the CAF and DND. Coles notes, we aren't doing good https://globalnews.ca/news/8784238/canadian-forces-systemic-racism-repulsing-new-recruits/

www.milnet.ca

Racism in Canada (split from A Deeply Fractured US)

Evening.....while this thread is US-Centric, lets not kid ourselves that Canada is any better. Yes the US has over 300 million people compared to our over 30 million people, but the same 'fracture' can be seen once you move out of the major cities i.e. Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, Ottawa. One...

www.milnet.ca

Alleged Institutional Racism/solutions in CAF (merged)

Hello, Just an observation of things as they currently are within the system regarding Institutional Racism. Nowadays, no one will be stupid enough to go up to someone‘s face and start insulting them with racial epithets or behaviour. Instead, they will make a soldier‘s life miserable by...

www.milnet.ca

Reservist probed for 'racist activity' as police prepare for white pride rally

This from the Calagry herald shared with the usual disclaimer. As Calgary police gear up to monitor a white pride rally on Saturday, a Winnipeg-based teenage Canadian Forces member who’s apparently intending to attend the event is being investigated by the military over “serious allegations of...

army.ca

White Supremacist Infiltration of Canadian Forces?

In the past 24 hrs, there has been talk in the media that U.S. white supremacist groups may be infiltrating the Canadian Forces with Canada's CF National Counter-Intelligence Unit being made aware of the situation last year. A quick search of the keywords will provide some articles. Threat or...

army.ca

etc...

They remind me of the 30-second lecture we got on the subject 50 years ago,

"You come to us from a society with many prejudices. We won't try to change your beliefs. But, if you treat anyone with disrespect, we will change your employment."

 

[Remius]

Sure, but how many people are we talking about? So far two made the news; both have been released.

Probably only a few on the grand scale. The issue is that the problem is growing.

I would agree that white nationalist are a threat (as are many other extremists), my personal object was the suggestion the CAF get 'proactive' to root out members that may have gotten through the screening or developed WN leanings later in life. But the reportings of intentional WN actively joining the CAF to gain those skills seems to be really limited, and would be separate from random people doing racist things (without some kind of overarching agenda).

Being proactive may be to address and clarify some of the weaknesses in being able to identify indicators and reporting mechanisms.

Members who become aware that their wingers have WN views (social media postings etc) and report them to the CoC is reactive. Taking action if someone does something racist is reactive. Similarly if some RCMP folks find a CAF member is participating in WN and passes that onto the CAF that is also reactive (on the CAF's part).

As mentioned, some proactive measures could be to provide the necessary tools and or training

I don't see 'being proactive' as anything short of actively surveilling CAF members. Doesn't really matter what we do, we make easy targets and good villains. Doesn't mean I want to have some random secret squirrel trolling through my personal life 'just in case'.

More in depth security screening would be a good step especially at the lower level. But again, we likely don’t have the ressources to do that to that extent. But yes, maybe online searches at that level.

Is it a potential threat? Sure. but there has been no evidence that it's nothing but a very limited number of people (single digits?), which really is insignificant, and a distraction from the very real national security threat that large parts of the CAF is in a material and personnel death spiral which is having a very real impact on actual operational capability. Nothing publically available suggest that this is a threat that requires us to change our actual approach of applying existing policies and punting people if they actually do something.

This is a good point. However how much damage can that limited number of people do? From a reputation standpoint point a heck of a lot. Especially if no quantifiable effort is in place to stop or limit them.

This is an interesting report.

https://icct.nl/app/uploads/2022/05/Right-wing-extremism-in-the-military-1.pdf

Now it is rather broad and covers several western nations and similar issues. One of the conclusions is that each country has the issue but it varies depending on the country. (Yes Canada is featured in some parts).

NOTE: It deals with right wing extremism and the military. Not right wing extremism as a whole

However it does identify and looks into some of the consequences as part of the right wing extremism in the military nexus.

(1) commit acts of terrorism or political violence;
(2) provide material support or training for right-wing extremist groups;
(3) commit ideologically motivated hate crimes or violate procedures and rules of en gagement while on deployment;
(4) hamper diversity and inclusion efforts by militaries; and
(5) disrupt the civilian-military power dynamic.

Now the conclusions are quite similar to what some are saying and supports the argument that all of these are few and far between.

The one finding I did find surprising is under #2 where they concluded that military training was more of a status thing in these groups rather than an active act to get people trained up for acts of political violence. With some exceptions of course.

But the end statement reinforces that while being a smaller problem than one may think, it is a growing one.



Given the variety of ways in which the right-wing extremism-military nexus can create problems, dealing
with this challenge necessitates a bespoke approach. However, whatever such an approach may entail, it begins with the political will to recognise the severity of the problem. This research paper is a starting point towards recognising and understanding the problem, but it will have little impact if governments and military organisations turn a blind eye.

 

[Journeyman]

For those wishing to read, NSRIA Review 2019-01 is at

https://nsira-ossnr.gc.ca/wp-content/uploads/CFNCIU-2019-01-REDACTED-EN.pdf

CSIS' 2021 National Security Threats (scroll down to IMVE) is available at

Threats to Canada's National Security - Canada.ca

www.canada.ca

 

[Kat Stevens]

But there are no white nationalists in Zimbabwe or Nigeria, so it all evens out in the end.

 

[Good2Golf]

For those wishing to read, NSRIA Review 2019-01 is at

https://nsira-ossnr.gc.ca/wp-content/uploads/CFNCIU-2019-01-REDACTED-EN.pdf

CSIS' 2021 National Security Threats (scroll down to IMVE) is available at

Threats to Canada's National Security - Canada.ca

www.canada.ca

Interesting that there wasn’t more detail on how a government can avoid fanning the flames credibly pre-empt and resolve the IMVE threat…and indeed PMVE as well (looking forward to next year’s report update to see how the ‘PMVE in 2022’ narrative is written).

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

How, and why, did this get released in the middle of a public inquiry that could possibly have overlap issues?

Of course we all know this is a potential problem, and good on folks for watching/reporting this crap, but like has been pointed out previously, there are hundreds of other problems also. So one must ask why one of those weren't released last Monday instead of one that could be an assist to the sitting Govt. over the use of the EA.

Even if it is 100% coincidence.....it either speaks to total amateurism by this arms length group,....or they aren't so "arm's length."

 

[Brad Sallows]

The problem isn't the assessment or the assessors. The problem is politicians and media and activists. They like to single out stuff that fits in the "right-wing white extremism" silo and popularize and inflame it, while ignoring (or close to) other security issues that don't suit. That distorts public understanding. The distortion is deliberate - to influence political and social change. But the distortion also affects the ability of organizations and agencies to rank and focus on their entire collections of issues. If more serious risks are less attended relative to potential impact, that's a problem.

Imagine if we had a single thread here for that stuff (white extremism/terrorism), and basically only one or two other threads for everything else. Why would that be necessary?

 

[TacticalTea]

MSN

From this morning, lightly touches on this thread's topic.

 

[Weinie]

The problem isn't the assessment or the assessors. The problem is politicians and media and activists. They like to single out stuff that fits in the "right-wing white extremism" silo and popularize and inflame it, while ignoring (or close to) other security issues that don't suit. That distorts public understanding. The distortion is deliberate - to influence political and social change. But the distortion also affects the ability of organizations and agencies to rank and focus on their entire collections of issues. If more serious risks are less attended relative to potential impact, that's a problem.

Imagine if we had a single thread here for that stuff (white extremism/terrorism), and basically only one or two other threads for everything else. Why would that be necessary?

My response stands. FFS. Really?

 

[Eaglelord17]

In the big scheme of things the FLQ were a very small (but dedicated) group. And if you called them White Nationalists today the Quebec Intelligencia would be extremely upset.

Most of Canada would be pretty upset if you pointed out to them that our nation was basically founded on white supremacy and their great grandparents were all part of it.

Boer War? Bunch of Dutch colonialists discovered gold in the land they took control of in Africa and now the British want it. WWI? Thats a white mans war, leave the recruiting office. WWII still similar feeling but not as bad as the previous war. Both sides were white supremists though, one side just claiming their white was more superior than the others.

That all being said in the last 80 years as a society we have made huge strides to move away from that and create a better society. Is there still racists and white supremicists? Yes. But there is certainly substantially less than there was then.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Well, what we seem to have is a thread for Muslim terrorism (maybe understandable, given magnitude of events and consequences over past 20+ years) and one for non-Muslim. But the latter mainly seems to be a posting board for white extremism/terrorism headlines.

 

[ueo]

In the big scheme of things the FLQ were a very small (but dedicated) group. And if you called them White Nationalists today the Quebec Intelligencia would be extremely upset.

A spade is still a shovel.

 

[OldSolduer]

MSN

From this morning, lightly touches on this thread's topic.

He delivered a much needed kick in the nards,

Good

 

[Quirky]

MSN

From this morning, lightly touches on this thread's topic.

I mostly agree, all these recent changes to dress regs for example are purely for recruitment purposes and thanks to the current government's general wokeness, nothing else. I don't believe for a second these types of things would be thought of during the Afghanistan days.

We are a bored, ill-equipped and directionless military.

 

[Weinie]

I mostly agree, all these recent changes to dress regs for example are purely for recruitment purposes and thanks to the current government's general wokeness, nothing else. I don't believe for a second these types of things would be thought of during the Afghanistan days.

We are a bored, ill-equipped and directionless military.

And I am glad I retired.

 

[Brad Sallows]

One thing I remember from a couple of encounters with the less extreme fringe of the fringe extreme community: don't underestimate the numbers of those people who are just "walts" who want to trade on as little as a few weeks actual experience as a Res F, as a former cadet, or as someone who once worked in proximity to someone wearing a uniform.

 

[TacticalTea]

Not to be cliche, but I'm going to go ahead and push back on the idea that the FLQ had anything to do with white supremacy. To suggest so is just more perplexing than anything. Betrays a certain ignorance, certainly. But, by all means, if you've got any evidence to support that notion, put it forth.

It also wasn't a ''very small'' group, it was actually surprisingly large.

@Kirkhill what's your point about Pierre Vallières?

 

[Navy_Pete]

Coming soon to a DLN near you; 'Don't be a literal Nazi', a self directed learning module.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The FLQ was about some kind of cultural supremacy. As broad as the Francophonie is, I don't think they had their Caribbean, African, Asian, etc brethren in mind. But there's a useful point to observe: that there's a difference between "X which also happens to have the characteristic Y", and "X is Y". More people ought bear it in mind.

 

[TacticalTea]

The FLQ was about some kind of cultural supremacy. As broad as the Francophonie is, I don't think they had their Caribbean, African, Asian, etc brethren in mind. But there's a useful point to observe: that there's a difference between "X which also happens to have the characteristic Y", and "X is Y". More people ought bear it in mind.

That's just not accurate.

The FLQ was, if anything, the stark opposite. They were left-leaning, many were communists and there was even a connection with the KGB. Not unlike their counterparts in Europe, then, such as the Baader-Meinhof group.

Communism has long been internationalist, not supremacist.

The problem of white supremacy is not the problem of nationalism itself. It is nationalism taken to its extreme. Just like corporate cronyism is not capitalism, but rather, its warped, lopsided and corrupt alter ego. I believe in the virtue of nationalism and am appalled when I hear a Prime Minister advocate for the idea of a post-national Canada.

As with everything, la modération a bien meilleur goût.