Current Dress Regs

[Navy_Pete]

It wasn't a generational thing to not like seeing unwashed hobo look, unkempt long hair etc.

You can have long hair, beards, wild hair colours etc and still look professional and well groomed. That can be a lot of work, and things like beard oil, hair products etc (also, basic hygiene, which sadly needs to be told to some). No 20 year old wants to work beside a winger that smells like 4 day old ass any more than someone in a different generation does, and similarly someone turned out looking like a sloppy bag of hammers with hair all over the place can impact your own feeling of being professional.

It's not like we're asking something unusual; again fast food places had stricter requirements than what we relaxed to.

 

[QV]

Disagree. There are limits to grooming standards where they no longer meet the threshold of "professional". The un-entitled in the private sector would get no such special privilege's as the public service and CAF employees.

Wildly colored hair, wizard beards, face tats, and face piercings don't typically meet the definition of "professional", anywhere you go.

I seriously doubt that during that period of modified grooming standards a bunch of CAF people dropped all basic hygiene and that was the problem here. In fact it was bright pink hair, face piercing's, and rainbow fingernail paint on your NCO, while in uniform and representing overseas that did it.

 

[dimsum]

Disagree. There are limits to grooming standards where they no longer meet the threshold of "professional". The un-entitled in the private sector would get no such special privilege's as the public service and CAF employees.

Wildly colored hair, wizard beards, face tats, and face piercings don't typically meet the definition of "professional", anywhere you go.

I seriously doubt that during that period of modified grooming standards a bunch of CAF people dropped all basic hygiene and that was the problem here. In fact it was bright pink hair, face piercing's, and rainbow fingernail paint on your NCO, while in uniform and representing overseas that did it.

I’m not sure where people got the “face piercings” part. They were never allowed even in the 2022 regs aside from the ears. The change was that they could have multiple piercings per ear, and gauges.

And what the posts/comments on here and other social media suggest is that yes, a bunch of folks decided that hygiene became optional.

 

[Quirky]

Wildly colored hair, wizard beards, face tats, and face piercings don't typically meet the definition of "professional", anywhere you go.

These people, which are a small fractional minority that make up the CAF, will quickly find out the real professional world isn't as accommodating. Good luck with your job search and interviews showing up like you've just rolled out of the circus. First impressions are everything.

 

[dimsum]

These people, which are a small fractional minority that make up the CAF, will quickly find out the real professional world isn't as accommodating. Good luck with your job search and interviews showing up like you've just rolled out of the circus. First impressions are everything.

Sure, but that’s something they have to adapt and overcome when they’re in that situation.

Civilian professionals don’t wear workout gear in the office, but we (aside from Ottawa) wear combats in office-like jobs. If we’re going to use “civilian professional” as a yardstick then CAF members should only wear DEU unless actively in the field/sea/flightline. If you aren’t scheduled to fly that day, you wear DEU and keep a flight suit in the office/crew spaces.

I would love to see the reaction to that change.

 

[Jarnhamar]

CDS calling out dinosaurs without calling them “dinosaurs”.

BGen (ret’d) Clancy with (probably) the more general view within the CAF:

Dinosaurs are more resilient than humans and didn't hurt the planet as much.

Perhaps we need more of these fabled creatures in the CAF.

 

[dimsum]

Dinosaurs are more resilient than humans and didn't hurt the planet as much.

Perhaps we need more of these fabled creatures in the CAF.

I vote for Elasmosaurus

 

[dapaterson]

Birds are descendants of dinosaurs, so Canada Geese qualify.

 

[dimsum]

Birds are descendants of dinosaurs, so Canada Geese qualify.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Birds are descendants of dinosaurs, so Canada Geese qualify.

Do chickens, then? Especially given their .... regimental affiliations?

 

[QV]

Sure, but that’s something they have to adapt and overcome when they’re in that situation.

Civilian professionals don’t wear workout gear in the office, but we (aside from Ottawa) wear combats in office-like jobs. If we’re going to use “civilian professional” as a yardstick then CAF members should only wear DEU unless actively in the field/sea/flightline. If you aren’t scheduled to fly that day, you wear DEU and keep a flight suit in the office/crew spaces.

I would love to see the reaction to that change.

I don't ever recall being allowed to wear "workout" gear beyond organized PT... combats are a uniform. But sure, for folks at NDHQ in executive positions, yes I think they should be in dress 3B daily.

The large majority of people anywhere just don't think bright pink hair is a necessary nor professional look, period. Your comparisons about one uniform to the next are irrelevant.

 

[mariomike]

BGen (ret’d) Clancy with (probably) the more general view within the CAF:

"I'm a pilot. I didn't care whether people had coloured fingernails with different coloured hair," Clancy said. "I really cared that they were excellent technicians and could do their job."

That's nice.

But, when I fly Air Canada as a paying customer, I care.

 

[dimsum]

I don't ever recall being allowed to wear "workout" gear beyond organized PT... combats are a uniform. But sure, for folks at NDHQ in executive positions, yes I think they should be in dress 3B daily.

They are a uniform…for combat. Just like how flight suits are a uniform for flying. Unit PT gear is also a uniform.

Again, if we are going to use civilian standards of a “professional look”, then why should the clerk in the OR be wearing CADPAT? Or the watch officer in an Operations Centre? Those are inherently climate-controlled office-like spaces, and civilian standards would suggest office attire, not combat clothing.

But if I suggested that for the CAF, I’m guessing that the response would be…not supportive.

The large majority of people anywhere just don't think bright pink hair is a necessary nor professional look, period. Your comparisons about one uniform to the next are irrelevant.

Have you seen the presentation or read the article posted? It wasn’t a large majority - it wasn’t even a majority. I have seen the presentation that prompted this and almost 1/3 of respondents were neutral about the 2022 changes. A “large proportion” doesn’t mean the majority - if something was 1/3 agree, 1/3 disagree, and 1/3 neutral, each of those are still large proportions, but not the majority opinion in any case.

The comparisons about uniform are relevant. “Professional look” isn’t just what colour your hair is or how many earrings you are wearing. For example, if you walked into a bank and the staff members there had “office approved” hair/nails/etc, but were wearing workout gear, would you say that is professional or not? I personally think it’s fine, but I guess most banks don’t allow their staff to wear Lululemon gear at work.

 

[Rifleman62]

But, when I fly Air Canada as a paying customer, I care.

Why on earth would you fly Air Canada? They don't care.

 

[mariomike]

Why on earth would you fly Air Canada? They don't care.

My daughter is a flight attendant. What choice do I have?

 

[The Bread Guy]

Why on earth would you fly Air Canada? They don't care.

More precisely ....

 

[QV]

They are a uniform…for combat. Just like how flight suits are a uniform for flying. Unit PT gear is also a uniform.

Again, if we are going to use civilian standards of a “professional look”, then why should the clerk in the OR be wearing CADPAT? Or the watch officer in an Operations Centre? Those are inherently climate-controlled office-like spaces, and civilian standards would suggest office attire, not combat clothing.

But if I suggested that for the CAF, I’m guessing that the response would be…not supportive.


Have you seen the presentation or read the article posted? It wasn’t a large majority - it wasn’t even a majority. I have seen the presentation that prompted this and almost 1/3 of respondents were neutral about the 2022 changes. A “large proportion” doesn’t mean the majority - if something was 1/3 agree, 1/3 disagree, and 1/3 neutral, each of those are still large proportions, but not the majority opinion in any case.

The comparisons about uniform are relevant. “Professional look” isn’t just what colour your hair is or how many earrings you are wearing. For example, if you walked into a bank and the staff members there had “office approved” hair/nails/etc, but were wearing workout gear, would you say that is professional or not? I personally think it’s fine, but I guess most banks don’t allow their staff to wear Lululemon gear at work.

Who gets to wear "workout gear" to the office every day? That shouldn't happen. I don't know why you keep mentioning that, I've never seen that.

CADPAT is a uniform none-the-less. Yes, it looks like a bag of shit... but it's the uniform of the day (no work dress anylonger). I've already said NDHQ in exec positions should wear 3B.

 

[markppcli]

Who gets to wear "workout gear" to the office every day? That shouldn't happen. I don't know why you keep mentioning that, I've never seen that.

CADPAT is a uniform none-the-less. Yes, it looks like a bag of shit... but it's the uniform of the day (no work dress anylonger). I've already said NDHQ in exec positions should wear 3B.

Have you never been around a combat arms unit ?

 

[daftandbarmy]

It wasn't a generational thing to not like seeing unwashed hobo look, unkempt long hair etc.

You can have long hair, beards, wild hair colours etc and still look professional and well groomed. That can be a lot of work, and things like beard oil, hair products etc (also, basic hygiene, which sadly needs to be told to some). No 20 year old wants to work beside a winger that smells like 4 day old ass any more than someone in a different generation does, and similarly someone turned out looking like a sloppy bag of hammers with hair all over the place can impact your own feeling of being professional.

It's not like we're asking something unusual; again fast food places had stricter requirements than what we relaxed to.

As usual, the ones who ripped the ass out of it ruined it for everyone else

 

[QV]

Have you never been around a combat arms unit ?

Sure have. I was a recce qualified infantry soldier. And in my time after morning PT, we were all in uniform and regularly inspected by the CSM or D/RSM for our turnout. Not advocating the for/against on that particularly, but there were uniform standards and everyone was expected to meet them. Its common hardships and requirements that bring people together, not individuality and special treatment for some.

If your unit is lounging about in PT gear all day long, times have certainly changed. I'd argue it sounds like you have a leadership problem but I don't know the present circumstances that have allowed that to occur.